View Full Version : Refs
I watched a game early last month and four players were booked but the referee has not sent the cautions in.
Surely that defeats the whole object and if the referee takes charge of a game when the either of the sides play how does he expect to be in control
Would like to hear views of refs Flynn, Mc Vey and Chambers on this one and should the ref be reported
I watched a game early last month and four players were booked but the referee has not sent the cautions in.
Surely that defeats the whole object and if the referee takes charge of a game when the either of the sides play how does he expect to be in control
Would like to hear views of refs Flynn, Mc Vey and Chambers on this one and should the ref be reported
Do you know for a fact that he hasnt sent them in? Is it your club in question? If you know for a fact that he hasnt sent them in, then yes, in my opinion, something needs to be done. I for one, have alwyas sent my cautions in. Yes, it is a PITA when you have to fill out all of the paperwork, but its something that needs to be done.
The easy answer to this one is that the referee should be reported to his affliated county FA. This needs to be done by the club secretary.
eddie c s
31-12-2005, 17:30
it does tend to go on i think ... not sayin it wrong or right . thought all cautions and reds were made easier to put through as its dont via internet etc. could be wrong . think reds should def be sent in though
I have to say that the "paperwork" excuse for not reporting cautions is complete nonsense now. The FA have moved into the 21st century and most (if not all) of the counties accept cautions via email. It is a step in the right direction.
Also, there is a multicaution report form that helps referees (like me) when there are four or five players to report in one game. If any one needs one let me know (as i have plenty) Gone are the days when i would spend 30/45 minutes on cautions - its now done within 2 minutes.
If the referee has failed to report a caution then the person concerned would need to be reported to the county secretary (to which they are affiliated)
Rant over - hope everyone has had a good Christmas and raring to go in the New Year
some refs give out a yellow card or two when they can see a game may possibly start to get out of control and give the cards where they usually wouldn't to calm the game down. maybe this is whats happened and the ref gave the yellow cards to stamp his authority on the game and not specifically to punish the players involved.
he may have also thought after the game that the bookings were harsh(we have had ref's on here lately trying to explain their actions after poor performances) and decided not to send them in as he got it wrong.
we all moan about refs not being human and not using common sense but maybe this has been the case and everybody seems to want this ref punished when he may have been doing what most of us want from a referee-common sense. if the referee concerned does this on a regular basis then he should be reported but not for this one game as thats a bit harsh and players expect the benefit of the doubt so surely for a one off incedent a ref should expect it too.
i'm sure most of us have been booked at least once with the caution not being sent in so lets give this ref a break and get on his back if he does this on a regular basis because then he'll definately deserve it.
my experience as a ref is some county fa's confirm my reports within days,some wait 3-4 weeks then send me the accumulation of that period. some confirmations have not returned at all.in all honesty i dont keep track,i keep match records for 2-3 weeks then bin them. what i'm saying is, refs reports can get lost just as fa confirmations can. the ref in question must have had a decent game though as his handling of the match wasn't critisised. thats gotta be a big plus
If the referee in question does it on a regular basis then they are letting down the next referee. If they report the cautions the next week they will probably get the normal moans of "last weeks referee didnt bother"
I agree that common sense must prevail and i can honestly say that last season I sent a report form to a county FA, with a letter stating I had cautioned a player in error and the poor player still had it registered against him.
It is a requirement that the referee is supposed to report all misconduct, be it cautions and dismissals. The counties should though accept letters from the referee if they feel they have cautioned a player by mistake.
I know of dozens of refs over the years who have booked players and not sent them in and it still goes on now, And I sincerely applaud them for it, It's common sense and long may it continue. If nothing intentional was meant and it was a heat of the moment thing or totally out of character of the player involved then forget about it, Football Associations have taken enough money off players and clubs in the past over petty things to boost their coffers and this is our little bit of payback, in fact more refs should do it.
a bit of realism at last!
I agree with Spec. If i'm being honest probably 75% of cautions are the correct decision (even though the offending player is unlikely to admit this!!) For us amateur footballers it's enough paying anywhere between £3 and £5 subs (which is doubled for those of us who play Sundays) let alone having to pay another £8 for a caution. Put on top of that your beers and you're well out of pocket (why do we play again??!!). Sometimes you get lucky and you might get away with a genuine booking whereas other times you might get ludicrously booked (like Rooney last night) but that one is sent in. It probably evens itself out in the end (unless you're a serial offender!) althought it's always nice to hear from your Club that your booking against ??? hasn't come through. Oh i'll celebrate by having some beers (spending £8!! - ironic or what?)
Tommy Trophy
04-01-2006, 15:22
Obviously this subject does not affect Ortonians as we don't have players booked but I can see both sides - think I sent all of mine in bar 1 (though I only booked an average of 1.31 players per game) as a player did not want to miss a cup final and he has subsequently abused me ever since for sending him off in the first place!
An argument thrown at me is that all of these £8's are used to part of fully finance trips abroad by sides representing the county or FA etc. - not sure how true that is, but must admit that the large intended bonus being proposed by the FA to England's players if they win the World Cup has to come from somewhere doesn't it?
To change the tact slightly, I have always been an advocate of a "Green Card" which would be somewhere between a booking and a sending off and take the shape of a 10 minute sin bin for example - any views?
Don't know where you get the bookings pay for rep sides trips abroard from Tommy unless things have drastically changed since I was a youth (and I'm not that bloody old) I played in loads of rep and county games and we had to make our own way there and buy our own blazers, although the wonderful people at the Northants FA did provide a motif for the blazer which my mum had to sew on herself !!! I don't remember seeing any rep side in the papers that have been on trips anywhere, we all know where the loot goes anyway, they build themselves plush new offices and decorate them out accordingly, I could tell you a few tales......
Green cards wouldn't work at our level, simply because the refs have enough to contend with when dealing with club linesman, moaning players and bad tempered managers never mind having to remember who's in the bin, how long he's been there and the fact that it would need 'policing' should rival players from either side be in it together, although if I were a ref I would find this idea very promising !!
eddie c s
04-01-2006, 22:10
i think yellows for bad fouls n foul or abusive language to opps or refs should be always sent in , n also agree with jb that if a ref did itpurely for the good of the game then fair enough let 1 or 2 slip .
dont really agree with a green card as all refs and im talking all the way up to premiere league , suffer from the old " but its my first tackle ref" if its a bad one ,bothered ,yellow card.
and agree sin bins would be slightly confusing.
then also when somone has been booked and does another boookable offence how many times does a ref then warn them again that there already on a yellow card?? thought a yellow was called a caution to warn them for being sent off . just dont see the point in having a green card to warn them before a yellow
Red cards yellow cards and now green cards why not a pink one too. Bottom line is that referees do not have to give out cards but if they think the crime deserves one then so be it.
But you cant have refs going home and then not sending them in. And by the way the game I was referring too all the bookings were fair and squarely deserved and two of the players should have seen red.
It might be ok if the ref in question never sent his bookings in but it is unfair on the players he does report.
I heard a story from a few years ago that referee sent off a player but did not send it because the player was putting some windows in for the ref That cant be bad :soo:
carefree
05-01-2006, 19:55
:blh: :blh: :blh: how about a few facts then offside?
seems your love to wind people up, could it be because you haven't got much of a life? or do you really get a buzz from it? sad. one day you might put a posting on here to pat someone on the back.(doubt it )
£8 booking stays with the f.a. the monies is for admin cost, (the stamp and the person writing the letters to the club) you don't get fined for the booking.
fair play to the ref's for making there own mind up on what to send in and what not too. its their call and if you sacked all that have done this then there would be no ref's left.
Once players get to know a referee does not send bookings in regulary how will he maintain discipline on the pitch.
Far from winding poeple up Carefree I am concerned because this year discipline in local football is at an all-time low.
I think you are possibly with with PSL and so you should know
tom flynn
06-01-2006, 18:01
Hi Offside, im not sure if you are aware but referees courses are readily available to all if you feel like taking part.
Been there done it but decided the whistle o]was not worth all the aggravation
Neither is coming on here sometimes !!!!!
Have not posted for a while but felt I had to comment on refs not sending in bookings. For a change I wholeheartly agree with spec.Only joking.There has to be room for common sense in the game. Most referees who do not send in bookings have not lost control of the game, in fact they have probally felt that the action they took helped calm down the individual. I really don't feel that refs not sending in bookings has lead to the present ill discipline in our local leagues, anyone who has been around for a while, in my case a bloody long while, knows that not sending in bookings has gone on for years.
Mick It may have gone on for years, but does not mean that it should be condoned. For example supposing one of the better players in the Peterborough area was either cautioned for a fifth time or infact sent off then he would be liable for a suspension. Now if that suspension was to cover say a Cup Final or a vital league title decider would the fact that the referee had not reported it be considered correct then, especially if that player scored the winner.
Lets not forget that it is the referees responsibility to report the facts regarding any discipline to the county FA. He or She can also add at the bottom of their report if they felt it was a mistake to carry out the caution or dismissal.
carefree
07-01-2006, 11:58
your postings say it all offside, ill imformed and a total plonker, you gave up reffing as it was to much grief but come on here to slate them! and then try to judge them and other teams on conduct!
you must be the water boy!! :scrwy:
Chris Judge
07-01-2006, 18:31
Have read the post on referees not sending in bookings and find the comments of carefree a complete disgrace.
A ref has has a choice on the pitch he can speak to a player, he can warn him again and he can book him. It is not rash thing and if it is perhaps he should not be refffing in the first place.
But once he books someone then it must go in because that is the letter of the law and it undermines every other referee if he does not.
You can talk about commonsense (you are excused here Carefree) but the players must also show some too.
Whoever the referee is he should be reported because he is lacking.
At the moment the refereeing in the Peterborough League has hit an all time low. We even have refs coming on this site and apologising for their bad perfdormances. Enough said
I agree fully with your remarks Mark
As for you Carefree reading is not a strong subjec tfor you, I have not knocked other teams on discipline only one. The majority are very good. Room for improvement for your club I would think
I feel that you need to think about what you're going to write Mr Judge before you press the submit button. If you remember, the 2 referees that apologised are 2 of the best refs in the Peterborough League and both well respected. If we have a go at Refs too much we won't have any left will we?
Also, what have you got against Carefree, where's all this animosity come from? Who's rattled your cage?
Chris Judge
07-01-2006, 20:48
Everyone is entitled to an opinion Hyppia and they will not suit everyone
I agree Tom Flynn is a very good referee but my experiences of Paul McVey, although not had him referee one of my games for a couple of years, do not rank him in the top bracket
But I think it is bad move to come on here after a bad game
My thoughts are my own and under my name why cant you put yours under a proper name why are you hiding behind a player who had a nightmare against Luton tonight - third goal down to him
Many of your posts are the more sensible on here
tom flynn
07-01-2006, 20:59
Bad performances Chris? Thats plural, ive only had one mare this season.Again i thankyou for what you said about my officiating but also know if i was bad you would also say.The only reason i came on here to talk of my expierience was just to say that im honest enough to talk about what happened in my eyes.I think as ive said earlier if refs, managers and some players can get together and discuss things it would be better for the league.People on this site have said before,Why dont refs come back for a drink?Some refs are alienated and i think it would help, just my opionion.Happy New Year everybody.
Chris Judge
07-01-2006, 21:21
The plural related to yours and Pauls perfromances as featured on this site.
Cant believe you would have more than one a season.
Very good idea about the discussion trouble is you cannot speak to most refs nowadays on the ptch or off. If refs spoke more to players on the pitch I am sure half the problems would soon be solved and less cards for everyone too
I hope you are fully recovered from your morning sickness Tom. Had to get a top notch ref to fill in for you
Agree with Mr Judge that you cannot talk to some refs. Fair enough if you don't show them respect then they are not going to entertain you, however if you ask a polite question i do not see any reason why the ref should refuse to answer (especially to the Captains). Wasn't condemning Judgey on last post just felt his comments were a bit harsh considering the refs involved
In response to your question I'm not hiding behind a name. I have no allegiance to Liverpool. A lot of people have commented that i look similar to Hyypia that's why i chose the name. As you can see from my location i'm a Crowland lad. Play centre half or left back and actually played against Ortonians first game of the season. That's enough for now
Appreciate the compliment about my posts. Many of my posts are the more sensible?! What about the rest of em? :lol:
tom flynn
08-01-2006, 13:24
Hi Hyppia, give my regards to your dad for me mate.
You just did mate 'cos he reads this Forum. Hope you're well. Speak to you soon face to face no doubt, when you next ref us
only1fogg
08-01-2006, 20:57
Talking of refs!! I had the pleasure to hobble down to north star(eye)to watch one of the worst performances I have had the misfortune to watch from a referee. Now paul mcvey is a nice fella and not a bad ref but he had a shocker!! Two tackles that were career threatening to say the least, a punch up and constant swearing towards him and not one red card!!
Paul lost total control and should have stamped his authority early as missed first half and heard that was even worst!!
Everyone entitled to an off day and so will allow paul this but as now got plenty of saturdays to watch other teams and referees I will no doubt meet paul again and interested to see if was an actual off day!!
I saw you on the crutches foggy - hope you get better soon mate. I have to admit that this weekend was a complete nightmare from my point of view, the shocker I had yesterday was similar to the equally poor performance I gave today.
I have to say that I shouldnt have refereed this weekend as I have been distracted by something that has happened away from football which happened on Friday night. I am not prepared to go into any detail but had the two games been local league games I'm sure cover could be found but unfortunately (for me) they were county cup games and Northants FA close at 5pm on a Friday.
Upon reflection I should have dished out more cards yesterday and then the incident at the end might not have happened (although I felt it was more handbags at ten paces rather than a punch up)
Tommy Trophy
08-01-2006, 21:41
Watched you this morning Paul and your decision making was ok most of the time. Pleased Raunds missed their penalty as the guy conned you into giving that unfortunately. Don't think anything you did affected the result with the Oak completely outplayed in the 2nd half.
Was a bit surprised with the amount of abuse that came your way from both sides over petty things and I thought you must have the skin of a Rhino to have let it all go over your head - is that what it's like in the UCL every week?
Have to say that in 16 league games so far this season we have had 15 good referee performances and only 1 not so good, and even that wasn't that bad, just that the guy felt a need to be noticed.
Mike Blackledge was top drawer yesterday - nearly as good as you Mr Flynn - sorry that you were so full of s**t yesterday and could not do our game!
Indeed it is like that at some places in the UCL and I have developed a "deaf ear" to most abuse that comes my way from players. With the amount of moaning today it made me doubt myself at times but thats part and parcel of football these days
The only times when dissent annoys me is when players continue even when you've told them to shut up or when they are in your face bellowing the usual stuff. The amount of cautions I have done for dissent this season is below 10 (so i must be tolerant)
tom flynn
08-01-2006, 22:21
Full of s**t Tommy, on that note mate i do believe your beloved Ipswich had a dose of it as well. :mnn:
carefree
08-01-2006, 22:49
you said it yourself mr judge, this site is about opinions, the only disgrace on here is your dress sense :bst:
offside i'll go back to school to learn to read and write properly ok? :mnn:
are you 2 lovers? :sxy:
Tommy Trophy
09-01-2006, 08:55
Won £300 on Portsmouth beating Ipswich- I had the foresight to know that Joe Royle was going to lose the cup game so that we could concentrate on mid-table obscurity (I know what it feels like to support Aston Villa now).
Wolves go marching on - wonder who they will "draw" next round - might be best for them to get out Tom so that they can concentrate on agonisingly missing out on the play off's?
I think we have you this Saturday against much-improved Pinchbeck - see you then.
tom flynn
09-01-2006, 12:06
As much as ive love to ref you this week Tommy i have been summoned by the hierachy to do a NHCup game this week mate so unfortunately i miss out on doing your lot.
Flynny, you are the worlds worst ref for not going back for a drink after the game, every game you have reffed us in you haven't been back once, is that because you can't drink with me like you used to and it's not as though you give us any special treatment because you are my mate, quite the opposite really !!! so that's not even an excuse ?????
eddie c s
09-01-2006, 13:32
so wot were raunds fc like? just be intrested to know . .. we invite teams and refs back for a drink , may i say its becoming even more common for the opposition to even say they will come back for a drink and then not bother. shame really
tom flynn
09-01-2006, 15:28
Not at all Spec, its because if i come back for "a" drink with you it lasts all bloody night and the Mrs wouldnt be to chuffed.Next question mate?
Next question is simple Tom, when are we doing it again !!!
carefree
25-01-2006, 22:37
Talking of refs!! I had the pleasure to hobble down to north star(eye)to watch one of the worst performances I have had the misfortune to watch from a referee. Now paul mcvey is a nice fella and not a bad ref but he had a shocker!! Two tackles that were career threatening to say the least, a punch up and constant swearing towards him and not one red card!!
Paul lost total control and should have stamped his authority early as missed first half and heard that was even worst!!
Everyone entitled to an off day and so will allow paul this but as now got plenty of saturdays to watch other teams and referees I will no doubt meet paul again and interested to see if was an actual off day!!
thats quite a total of shockers then for Mcvey this season, how come u aint said sorry again paul?
Hey Carefree,
I felt the comments on Sun, Jan 08 at 10.34pm were sufficient for the comments that Hop-a-long Foggy left.
A situation that weekend arose on the Friday night and instead of leaving two games (which were Northants Cup games) without a referee I decided to do them. In hindsight I shouldnt have done them.
I'm pleased to say the four games since then have seen me leaving the matches more pleased with my own performance and players havent been complaining.
One last point before I finish - how comes we never read players confessing to having bad games. (stirring up the old hornets nest now)
One last point before I finish - how comes we never read players confessing to having bad games.
Probably, cause there not willing to put themselves up to be shot down Paul :soo:
carefree
27-01-2006, 09:33
Hey Carefree,
I felt the comments on Sun, Jan 08 at 10.34pm were sufficient for the comments that Hop-a-long Foggy left.
A situation that weekend arose on the Friday night and instead of leaving two games (which were Northants Cup games) without a referee I decided to do them. In hindsight I shouldnt have done them.
I'm pleased to say the four games since then have seen me leaving the matches more pleased with my own performance and players havent been complaining.
One last point before I finish - how comes we never read players confessing to having bad games. (stirring up the old hornets nest now)
proberly because the manager can take the poor player off and use a sub!
shame this can't be done with a ref eh? lol :lol:
tom flynn
27-01-2006, 17:13
To right, take us off early and lets get to that bar.Except when i ref Specks lot. :lol:
I wonder how many games I would finish then? :lol:
And no, I dont want people coming out and saying each individual game i have done over the past few years!!
I suppose I am mad coming on here and leaving myself to be shot down but I can take the criticism (most of the time)
only1fogg
29-01-2006, 15:27
Another foggy ref review - watched ortonians vs hotpoint with Reg Parker taking charge. An adequate performance from reg in a highly charged game. mark 6/10 and he handled all before him well with no major decisions to make.
One small moan and that is there was 4 players booked and yet not one bad tackle in the game but people should know Reg's style!!!
Good performance reg!!
Foggy you must be hard to please mate. It seems Reg had a good game and yet you only gave him 6/10. That average. If you marked the ref every week then you would probably have to write a lot letters (for marks less than 4)
Well in the same vein. Last time I saw Foggy play, he had an adequate game not much to do. The only complaint I would have as a referee, he don't ever shut up. 6/10. Well done Foggy.
Hey Foggy have you ever considered life as a referee assessor. Your getting in plenty of practice already mate. How is the injury anyway and when will you be returning? Please dont assess me if you do become one though - permanent 4/10 for me from you :lol: .
tom flynn
30-01-2006, 10:00
Morning Paul,im afraid i cant make it to Corby with you this weekend for the Northants Semi Final but best of luck to you mate.I have more important business at The Walkers Stadium.Id booked tickets weeks ago mate as it was pre arranged.Good luck mate.
8/10 from me for Reg's performance Foggy, thought he was excellent
Sounds like they needed a referee in the Solstice on Saturdayt night when six Royal Oak boys (sorry idiots) set about Jube's manager Shaky.
Really brave of them
Tommy, I'm very disappointed that you are blowing me out on Saturday - I might even have offered to buy you a drink. Now thats something you dont hear very often from someone whos father is from Scotland :lol:
I'm getting worried now - first Mr Swann - Peterborough United!! now you Tommy - do i smell or something?? The game has been confirmed and S/L Corby have mentioned Wellingborough Town may bring a few fans. I'm just glad it wasnt the local derby between wellingborough town and whitworths (for those who didnt hear UCL Division 1 game - 24/12/05 - over 1000 spectators - dont get that in Peterborough League)
topband before you come on here going on about what went on at the solstice Saturday night get your facts right please . I was there the thing was it was Hotpoint and some ortonian lads having a night out after there game having a good time then in come the bloke in Question and set on lee darcy ( very brave ).
the jube manager was carted out the back door for starting the fight . but the sad think was the hotpoint and ortonian lads was asked to leave . I don't think this sort of thing should come on here but the truth had to be told . shame on you shaky or what ever your name is I hope you phone lee and sort it out .
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