MAKING SUNDAY MORNING FOOTBALL GREAT AGAIN

[carefree]

here is an idea how to help the committee,:

how about 4 of us who have sides playing in the sunday morning league help out by attending monthly meetings? we could send at least 1 of our 4 to each meeting to listen and work with them to make things better, i can't attend every month but could attend at least 1 in 4. (when it comes to the discipline side im sure we would be ask to leave the room which is fine)

the 4 can keep in touch with each other plus other member clubs playing in the league and exchange ideas ect to take to the meetings. we could also become spokesmen for all other clubs who have a problem that needs addressing. i.e no ref's or other.

[Back of the Net]

Quality idea Al...
I know Mandy from Limetree is going to the committee meeting on the 16th with a view to joining if all goes well.
She spoke to me yesterday and said she may ask other clubs etc for ideas to take to that meeting - she reads this forum so hopefully that'll be one she takes along with her!

Oh and guess what.... We have no ref this weekend :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'd like to think it is pure coincidence and I really hope all other games go ahead.

[Back of the Net]

Just been speaking to Paul redgate regards refs - we dont have one this Sunday - surprise :lol:

Anyway, He mentioned that not 1 single 'club person' had come forward to do the Refs course they came up with...
I replied and said I'm not bloody surprised - they want us to go along to a 2 day course (all weekend gone!) then follow up with midweek eve child protection thing and we have to pay just over £70 for that course plus another £37 for all the kit.
Thats 2.5 days plus over a £100 laid out by us to sort their problem out!! mmmmm let me see - no thanks I'm too busy for that and cant afford it - I dont care if it's refunded 20 weeks later I aint got it now!!
SO - I emailed him this idea.... what d'ya think?? I'd buy into it and do that course for £20 if they structured it that way!

Why don't we offer ONLY OUR OWN PSMFL CLUB people this deal or similar to attract 1 ref per club?
The PSMFL pay for 80% of all initial fees - The Ref only has to pay a token £20 (or close too that amount) for their course and their kit all in!
It's run on 1 full day - We could arrange for us to use Farcet facilities and provide nibbles/tea etc at cost (PSMFL sling em £50 or something to cover it?)
We then approach a Refs Trainer and they get paid via County FA, but the PSMFL then top their fee up by another £50 - £100 for doing it over 1 long day instead of 2!
Child protection is a must and will be done either midweek eve or Sat morning at your convenience to complete the course!

And here's the killer hook that should attract a few at least....
After 10 games FAMOA will also send you a cheque for approx £75 as a refund for your course that is yours to keep!
Thats 10 games at £22, plus £75 as a loyalty bonus and all your kit - all sorted for you, for just a token £20 payment and a day n a half of your time!
I would buy into that for sure...

Yes it'll cost us (PSMFL) their Kit, plus their course fees, MINUS the £20 token charge to them = about £80 per ref cost to PSMFL
Plus about £100 - £150 to the trainer and food etc.
20 refs would cost us under £1750, but it would totally sort our problems out if we then used the "rest a league each week" structure, allowing us to utilize these clubs refs throughout the season when their own clubs are not actually playing....
Surely it's worth spending the money now and sorting the problem????

[carefree]

if it costs so much to train a new ref maybe the league could consider this.

set a cashpot from raised league funds to one side for referee training. say £700

add £2- £3 to referee fee's per match. referee's fee stays the same but bill each club the extra end of each month.

20 games generates £40 - £60, so every 2 weeks enough to train 1 referee.

then get the referee to agree to do 10 games a season minimum for the next 2 - 3 seasons if his training is paid from this pot get him to agree this by some kind of contract and that if he only does say 15 games in 2 - 3 seasons amounts to £30 - £45, bill him for the rest.

[Andy]

Not bad ideas, but people need to realise there's a lack of referees for a reason.

Nobody can argue that the level of dissent hasn't risen to near intolerable levels over the last few years and there really isn't the incentive for people to get out of their beds on a Sunday morning to get bitched at by 30 blokes, half of whom are still ****ed.

Most referees, i'd wager, do it because the love the game, and this can only be pushed so far.

[Back of the Net]

No need Al.
Our PSMFL has over £35,000 in the bank and this is the CLUBS money, So why not chuck £1500 or so at the problem to help it go away??
What else is the money for, if not for 'a rainy day' ?
We've heard the Committee at AGM many times say this money is indeed ours but its for a rainy day....
WELL REGARDS REFS - IT'S BLOODY P*SSING IT DOWN FROM WHERE WE'RE SITTING, SO SORT IT OUT!!!!

At the rate we seem to collect money in fines and admin etc it'll be replaced before the end of the season anyhow :soo:

[Back of the Net]

Andy,
Yes the teams must take responsibility also, but we're talking about getting 1 person within each club registered as a ref to help out in emergencies when needed - NOT attract loads of new people!
If we could tempt 1 person from a few clubs to do the course and only ask them to ref in emergencies when their own club isn;t playing then it would certainly ease the problem short too mid term??? we have a pool of people here all interested in Sunday morning footy, lets tap that resource properly!!!
But right now the PSMFL are asking club people for over a £100 and 2.5 days of their time and they wonder why no-one wants to do it!!

I for one would do it if the cost was minimal and it was nailed in a day, plus they only ever asked me when my team did not have a game that weekend... I'm sure at least one or 2 others would on that basis too??
We gotta try something? if not many lads go for it we aint lost anything have we?

[Andy]

If people need kit etc... speak to the Referee's Association. At their initial meeting, they were mootng the idea of selling second hand kits etc... (a cheap way to start).

The Brewery Tap paid for a guy to qualify as a ref and he would work for PSMFL as long as it was guaranteed that the Tap had a ref every week - you'll never see their games called off for no ref. Seems a good way of doing it to me.

I wouldn't be an advocate of qualifying in a day, though. My course lasted 7 weeks, as the one about to start / just started will.

As much as most people know the rules, there are a few quirks and procedures that need ironing out before someone starts officiating.

I'm quite stunned at the £35000. What on earth do they need that amount for? It wouldn't hurt them to chuck the referee's assocation a few quid to invest in training, development etc...

[Back of the Net]

All good ideas and at least they're open for all to see, as long as we try something and help with the costs from the crazy amount we've amassed then at least we know we tried....
All I'm saying is they way it's structered right now may well be putting people off training as a ref to help us and their own clubs out?
Just offering ideas to dicuss!

[rabbit]

I agree with the suggestions put forward, especially using the "rainy day" money for funding referee training.

I've just got one slight problem with the view that one ref from every club will solve the problem.

Firstly, you will never get every club to provide a referee.
Secondly, if you do get one person to train, the pressure that person is then put under is intense.

Its one thing to say give one division a break and then use the referees to cover other divisions, but while everyone else in the division is using the sunday to do other things; be it DIY, spending the day with family, go out for the day etc, the one poor bloke who volunetered has to go out and referee - no sunday off for that chap!

The people the league need to try and focus on is, and i'll try and put it politely, the more 'experienced' players who are considering hanging up their boots.

Reffing keeps these people involved in the game, allows them to still have the banter on the football field and also by making sure as clubs we make sure that when invitations to clubhouses / pubs are being made, these are also given to referees, they also get their sunday lunchtime drink which is a big part of playing on a sunday morning.

All this of course comes to nothing if as teams we continue to abuse referees left right and center. Cut out the abuse and a few more referees might stick around.

[Back of the Net]

Rabbit... thats who I meant to target.. people within each club who are nearing the end of their careers and/or managers assistants etc.

Of course we're not going to get every club putting someone forward but if you made it easy to do with minimal cost and explained the benifits to you and your team then maybe we'd get a few more at least?
And you wouldn't have to ref EVERY sunday that your not playing either, just every now and then to help out so the pressure doesnt have to be that high!
Basically if they want a bit of extra money and to be involved that Sunday then they can, if not, then we're no worse off are we??

By the way I agree totally - teams must start looking after our refs better!

[carefree]

i kind of agree Andy but new blood referee's and start again. i for one would do the course for lord westwood. but i can't be available every sunday morning due to managing crowland under 11's and believe me referee's get much more abuse at kids games from parents. new ref new blood, and i aint bothered about half drunk supportors or players giving me jip and know doubt i would know most anyhow. i'm big enough and ugly enough to withstand it so maybe im the type of referee thats needed.

[carefree]

sean, then we need to get every exsisting member club to sign a petition stating that we want a referee fund set aside to achieve this. if they then say no i for one will write to county or soho to get their help. if it is the members money then we have a right to vote how to spend it to improve our league

[Back of the Net]

Al - we do have a right to say how it's spent, all you have to do is propose something and get another member to 2nd it and then call a vote - if you get a majority then it has to be done, whatever anyone else thinks the majority carries!
So in practise it would maybe go like this.
Al has a brainstorm - speaks to Paul Clarke as Chairman and runs the idea past him to iron out difficulities!
You then write to the chairman saying you officially propose this idea and want a vote to make it happen at the next AGM.
All you need is another member club to sign that letter and and say they 2nd it.
At the next AGM the Committee would read out your proposal and say "Al from Westwood proposes and whoever else 2nds it"... then we all vote, a majority carries the idea and if voted in the Committee would be tasked with making it happen..!

But to save all that hassle we could just ask the Chairman and committee to think about the idea and just do it if they think it'd help - they may just agree and get it sorted..
We dont need a pot of money set aside, we already have that, we just need everyone to agree it's a good idea to invest it!

[Ross]

Interesting idea sean, but learning the laws in just 2 days? On my course we spent almost 8 hours on the offside rule. Also, what happens when a new ref gets abused verbally or physically and wants to jack it in, money well spent? Not really

[Back of the Net]

nice one Ross!
mate the PSMFL have put forward the idea of a 2 day course, not me..
I just said why not make it one long day instead of 2 - same time spent?

Also we're not talking new refs here are we mate?
we are talking about people already playing or running things within Sunday morning clubs, so they could most likely already ref a game (like I do now and then) with no bother at all, they would just need a little extra help/advice.
The PSMFL would then perhaps get a few extra refs within their member clubs to call on when they cant find enough outside of this pool of people...
we're not suggesting it will solve the Cambs area of refs problems but it may help us within the PSMFL?

[carefree]

i have refereed many games both kids and adults over the years and i feel i know most of the rules in fact i can't think of any i don't know and i'm not qualified but im as good as any sunday morning referee thats for sure. i could easy do it in 1 day let alone 2 or 8.

i'm sure that if all have spent as long as me in the local league they would know the rules ref's abide by also.

[carefree]

p.s in fact i think most teams would just be happy to have someone ref their game quilified or not

[eddie c s]

well ross that shouldnt happen if the main man in the fa has his way , only the captain aloud to talk to ref ...... this is apparently bein used on amateur plays as there the guniea pigs . hmm now heres a thought , how will that ever work ? u play on a sat n sunday where everythin is quiet but then on match of the day there is JT or reo abusin the refs ..... to anyone who reads this site who has any influence tell old matey what a ridiculous idea that is and maybe he should inforce it in the premier league where the rest will follow!


here was my own thought on the matter , i think that a rule should come in where if the ref gets grief or abused or shouted at then a free kick should be awarded in the D area by the 18 yard area . this would penalise teams for abuse to the ref by a chance of maybe conceeding a goal as well as maybe a yellow or red dependin on how bad it is. now that would be a good guniea pig idea for amateurs to use as would cut it out and therefore keep more refs in the game !

i have 2 say though i am talkn about footy now as an abusive sport , in the main i think most teams can hold there head up high .

i thank u

[pmcvey]

Some interesting points have been raised by several writers in this topic and I agree something should be done to arrest the problem.

However, if a person took the referees course and learnt the 17 laws of association football (there are no rules guys) what happens then??? Its all very well and good putting the guys(or girls) through the referees course but what happens after they have passed??

You could say "mentor" them but who is going to mentor them? There are only 3 assessors in the Peterborough area (that are registered with Northamptonshire FA) they cant be at every game can they?? (before anyone asks yes I am one of those assessors and would be willing to help should someone qualify)

Too many ex-referees have just "disappeared" from football over the years (be interesting to see someone trying to coax them out to help)

In response to Eddies suggestion an indirect free kick can be awarded at any time for a player showing dissent (but how many referees at any level use this? I know I usually issue a yellow card as a response to a dissent as a result of another decision I have made)

Paul (any views I state are purely my own and are not the view of the Peterborough Referees Association)

[eddie c s]

ur not gettin my point , i know thats a law of the game ...... im sayin make it a direct free kick in the D area . wherever the abuse or insults come from on the pitch ...

[tom flynn]

I reffed Netherton v Racing 252 yesterday morning and both sides were a credit to the league.I really enjoyed it.All credit to everyone associated with both sides.And to top it,a hassle free morning and no earache.Why, i hear you ask............................No Abbas :lol: Netherton won 3v1 and looked a very good side.

[Harbs]

was a good reffing display also Mr Flynn, a lot of spectators there also, i think mainly eyeing up Netherton as the team to watch out for.
good game guys deserved win. Racing were not at the races.
another tough game for us next week against the Jube. :bby: going to miss it but :snt: i will be watching England from Spain so will be getting the results text over.

good luck.

[Mick B]

From What I saw you missed most of Sunday's match against Netherton. :lol: Sorry Harbs couldn't resist it, one day you'll do a full 90 minutes. Watched 90% of the Netherton v 252 game Sunday. It was nice to see both teams trying to get on with it and no dissent to the ref. Not sure if that was due to the fact both teams were well behaved or that it was Mr. Flynn reffing. I would like to think it was the former and that this will be the norm. On the day the best team won, 252's all stars really didn't get it together and didn't look up for it, I would expect them to play a lot better than that and I'm sure they will. Full credit to Netherton, well organised, played as a team, full of effort and pace and took their chances well. Once again full marks to both teams for a good clean match .

[Harbs]

in all honesty im surprised i didnt come off a lot sooner. didnt even have a hangover as an excuse.
think thats where i went wrong!
i heard Randall is jubes new captain... how funny would that be.

[Raph]

What happened to Eye Harbs? I though our draw was bad, but 5-0? Surprised at that one.

[Nipper]

Yeh,well done to Netherton.Better team won on the day.They seem to have an abundance of pace throughout the side in Kingy,Stead and Matt Seddon(???!!!)which caused us problems and will give other teams the same.
- (JNE's Foggy will have nightmares for weeks as he loves playing against pace-even though the game is quicker in UCL!!)

Nice to see Mr Flynn ref again.Easy game to ref I think with not much hassle from players/spectators.

Bit dissapointed in Rocket Rons contribution though-didnt hear many legendary comments!!

Massive game next week especially for myself and Tyler who come up against our old club.Look forward to it.

[Harbs]

What happened to Eye Harbs? I though our draw was bad, but 5-0? Surprised at that one.

i was working so cant comment on the performance but from what i have been told the opps were good for the points.

no complaints just an underperforming EYE.