View Full Version : poor reffing
carefree
01-09-2007, 18:19
if a referee makes a shocking blunder during a game should he be comdeemed? or even banned???!
eg. a player attacks another player with a violent assult, the referee see's it and give a yellow card.
then his excuse why he didn't send him off when asked after the game ' i didn't think it would have an affect on the outcome of the game because you where winning 3-1!
game then ends 3-3
makes me think that all football from level 7 and down is becoming a total joke, when it comes to referee standards,.
added to this is harsh over the top ban's
eg: ronaldo (pro player) 3 match ban, jamie graham(am player) 112 day ban 16 plus games for exactly the same thing.
a referee shortage? yes there is so any fool can now take charge of a level 7 game.
before you all start defending this ref think about this, is it ok to not send a player off for a pysical attack on another? and knowingly allowing him to stay on because he thought the game was won? there can be no excuse for when a referee thinks it fine to attack others!!!
Can't comment on the incident, I don't know anything about it. What I do know is that I rate the ref named for your game very highly. Very rarely do I see a ref who has a faultless game and when they do make a mistake I really hope that it does not have a consequence on the result.
Unfortunately when it does its the one thing that is never forgotten at any level. We have played a game recently where the ref saw a player kicked whilst on the ground which he believed just warranted a chat. Is it because it wasn't a full blown boot or that the player didn't role around holding his face or does the ref feel that a red card and £35 quid is a bit harsh. We have also got away with a lash out or two in the past.
For me a kick is a kick. Red. You know the rules. It's one of the reasons why I would rather not ref. It's like the deliberate handball, how bad does a ref feel when he sends someone off for that one. Trust me, not good.
Violent assault ! I'm guessing we are not talking a bit of a kick. If it was a bad tackle it's a bit down to interpretation.
I'm just playing devils advocate. Would you have mentioned it or been bothered if you had of won ?
Have you reported this to the league/county? If what happened is indeed true, then the league/county need to act.
Reporting to the FA ! Well that should get rid of another Ref.
It would seem from the witnesses that I have spoken to that the player should have had a red. Just to add. My view has always been, whatever the situation of the game, you have to remember that the player will have a suspension that could influence the teams future performances as well.
Reporting to the FA ! Well that should get rid of another Ref.
It would seem from the witnesses that I have spoken to that the player should have had a red. Just to add. My view has always been, whatever the situation of the game, you have to remember that the player will have a suspension that could influence the teams future performances as well.
To be honest, whats stopping this from happening again?? Players getting away with hitting/punching opponents etc. Something needs to be said in my opinion.
I know what you are saying, I just don't think it would have been mentioned if PSL had won. That doesn't make it right either. It would seem the man made a mistake, most people do, he may view things differently next time.
Can I ask if anyone thought that his game generally was OK up to this point ?
Or maybe enough has already been said ?
SportsSec
03-09-2007, 12:06
The Ref generally had a poor game for both sides & after this decision, he had 'lain down a marker' which made it very difficult for him to control the game. After the incident, there were tackles from both sides which warranted at least Yellow cards but, nothing happened.
I would also like to point out that even if we had won, letters to the appropriate people would still have been forthcoming. This was the worst decision I have seen from a referee & as such needs to be highlighted.
This has no bearing on the ref as a person - He was extremely accommodating & a nice guy, but, he did not do his job correctly.
I only watched the first half so missed the incident in question but his first half performance was poor to say the least, very inconsistent let a lot of fouls go and pulled up 2 very good tackles for fouls!!
I noticed he had a UCL ref badge on his shirt and in my past dealings with them they seem to think they have been dropped down to a level that they think is easy to ref and get caught out by the frantic pace of the prem, either that or they think they are above it, it usually evens itself over the season though but perhaps the fact that it was a crucial game will not help with that little saying.
SportsSec. A very well explained and rational response.
carefree
03-09-2007, 21:08
CAFC thats a norrow view, is he your mate also? if the ref quits then so what? if he accepts he dealt with it incorrectly and knows that he was wrong not to send this player off then fair enough.but even after the game he tried to talk his way out of it when i asked why he only gave a yellow, after what he did he needs to explain why he thought it is ok too let a player get away with attacking another. the result doesn't come into it.
with us winning 3-1 at the time and the player sent off, then yes we would have won the game and we aint moaning because it ended in a draw. we are still only 1 pt of top spot.
added to this whittlesey's club lino also said it was disgraceful that he was not sent off as did everyone else watching, and if Lee minnet was honest about it i'm sure he also would agree..
We have sent in a protest concerning what happened in the hope that did doesn't happen again.
As I said, I was playing devils advocate. And my points, I thought were far from narrow. Purely made to provoke different views.
I have to say that the 'if he quits so what'. Is not worth any further comment.
I also said that the people who I spoke to said it should have been red, So I don't disagree with you. My contraversial point was if it would have been mentioned if you had of won, to which SportSec answered admirably. After SportsSec posted, I believe that he explained the situation very well and put into perspective along with Spec that this incident was probably as a result of a generally poor performance.
As I said, my view is that its more than just about the sending off in the game, it has a knock on effect for 3 or 4 other games. Which it would seem you know all about. So if it's a bit of a flick Beckham style or a badly executed head butt Ronaldo style, I say red. We then move into the contraversy that you have spoken about previously.
Oh and yes, if it was the named ref on the PDFL website, he's a mate of mine and to make matters worse the offending player was one of mine also.
I was going to say that you would make a good diplomat CAFC, but then I noticed the people you knock around with :lol:
carefree
04-09-2007, 12:33
didnt disagree with anything else you said just the ' if you won would we have complained bit' a dig at us yes? making it look like that was the only reason we moaned.
you mentioned one of your players getting kicked on the ground, did you win that game by any chance? did you put in a complaint? because by not doing so leads to accepting it as fine to do so.
as you seem too think that thats our only reason because points were droped? or maybe i ve got it all wrong ( which wouldnt be the 1st time).
both mates of yours answers a few things for me ( not a dig at you) as i got told that ash and lawrie are mates, ( i don't know this as fact so took it as a rumour) would explain why when ash should have got a red card why both lawrie and ash were smiling at each other as the yellow got shown. the incident happened near the dugouts but ash was taken to the far side so no one could hear what was going on.
have you read the ET report tonight? instead of lawrie accepting it should have been a red (as even Lee thinks it was) he insist he did the correct thing!!
maccaceltic
04-09-2007, 13:10
i have read the diffrent disscution over the past few days and its interesting to hear diffrent sides but what about this for throwing a spanner in the works!
Say al's team were 5-0 up and the incident happend with maybe 10 mins to go, the ref then books the player as a result of him thinking that the game is won & 1 of al's players decides to take revenge on the player who should have been sent off. he say does the same thing or lunges in with a reckless challange who you deem to send him off as should be the rules or not to because the game is won?
see my point the result it doesent work in that case
matt leftley
04-09-2007, 14:24
I just hope that those who make a complaint about a ref that has not sent a player off for an incident have also done so when there own players should have been sent off and were not. Now i know this is not the case so what's the excuse for that?
carefree
04-09-2007, 14:49
what are you getting at matt?
its not about what we saw but what the person in charge on the pitch saw. i think you will find if it were the other way round whittlesey would have complained also.
this is a posting about what the ref saw and didnt do.
you going on about ben and you maybe?
things happened there that spec saw and i didnt and what i saw and spec didn't , but what matters is what the ref see and did.
Carefree, yes absolutely one of the points I was trying to make diplomatically. We (that's mostly me) have been guilty of not making too much fuss if we win. I was trying to suggest that most of us are like it although you are convincing me that you are not. That's fine. Good on ya. One thing worse than being a Manager, being a ref.
Ash and the ref mates. No I don't think so. The ref would know Ash from the days he played for me. He was a good lad when he played for me, honest. He's a proper Lilly Savage now.
Macca, I'm with ya, he should have been sent off whatever the score, whatever the time. Not just because of this game but he has got away with a suspension. It would seem that the ref saw it different at the time and stands by his decision :soo: I aint seen the local papers. Worryingly this forum seems to be supplying the press with their stories.
If the ref sends in the card and describes the incident as lashing out, or striking. The FA can upgrade the card. Depends on how the ref interpreted the incident. Maybe he bottled it? Who truly knows apart from the ref? Maybe he saw it differently to other people.
You need to be careful as to what you say about refs on public forms like this as a misconduct fine is not fun...
carefree
04-09-2007, 15:50
cafc yes you are right when you say most would let it go if they had won as it would seem you did, but what if you didnt win? and it cost you how would you act then? win or draw the same would have been done at any psl game. if it were anyone's player on the end of an attack i would expect their team to make the complaint. (right matt as i don't expect someone to complain about their own players to the league, but many do have it out with their own players as i have in the past and so did alex with skirrit recently) but this was a case of nothing but a red card would have been good enough, if 10,00 referee's found themselves in the same position i promise you now all would have sent ash off.
i know ash aint the nasty type i don't know him but it was clear in the way he played his game and i doubt he would act the same way ever again. it isnt the fault of whittlesey or ash, ash broke a rule and lawrie failed to punish him thats the point and YES it did have a bearing on the outcome of the game. love to know what provoke him as Lee stated in the ET because all i see was bellamy giving him the runaround, but lawrie still thinks he did the right thing, but really i think he knows he got it wrong and isn't brave enough to admit it. anyone can accept it if any ref held his hands up and said yes i did get it wrong! well anyone but lawrie that is it would seem
not only do the ET get info from this chat forums i think you will find the league do also. (recent sunday debate)
must of what you read in the national press is started by roumours and gossit on forum's like this one.
i think enough has been said on this one now game has gone and will never get changed, and we all seem to be picking at any little detail (me included)
i know there is a referee shortage but it is a paid job too, they don't get expenses and there are plenty out there doing it just for the extra cash. (again my opinion and not always the case for every ref)
matt leftley
04-09-2007, 16:28
that ref saw things and did not act and you did not moan about it that time you won 2.1. not getting at ben at all it's good to play against a centre back who gives you a hard game and have had many with ben sat in your club house after having a drink with him!
if you swear at ref you should be sent of by the letter of the law and this does not happen thank god so every time there is a bit of a scrap they should get sent off! if this happened every time i think a lot of teams would be a bit short for the season. darren palling smacked chris beebey last wed night and kicked kim on the floor nick breen saw it and booked him two min's later he scored it happens that's football just get on with it . if every time a ref did not act to the way we felt appropriate we would be mobed with postings every week on ref's move on.
carefree
04-09-2007, 20:39
are you on this planet matt??? think you need to re read what you wrote.
so you think i should report my own players then if they attack other players??? well i dont condone attacking other players even if you think i do, but i'm not bothered if you do. thats your oppinion and i think others will read into it how they like.
surely if there is any wrong doing the team on the recieving end should and always will make the complaint!!
can't wait to see if lee minett makes a complaint about ash :lol: maybe you should advise him to?
Speaking with Ash he is pretty embarassed by all the publicity the incident has caused, spoke to Lee tonight and he agreed that Ash should have walked but from what I can understand Brett wasn't totally innocent in the day's shennanigans.
I just hope that those who make a complaint about a ref that has not sent a player off for an incident have also done so when there own players should have been sent off and were not. Now i know this is not the case so what's the excuse for that?
Interesting point raised Matt, if what you mean is that clubs perhaps should report their own players for committing sending off offences. I feel sure that there have been plenty of occasions in the past when players should have been sent off. I have read of two such incidents this season already. Skerritt for Perkins and the incident being discussed here. I personally think that we have baited this referee enough on this occasion and perhaps we should also take into consideration for once atleast some of the good performances put in week in week out by our men in black.
If the ref sends in the card and describes the incident as lashing out, or striking. The FA can upgrade the card. Depends on how the ref interpreted the incident. Maybe he bottled it? Who truly knows apart from the ref? Maybe he saw it differently to other people.
You need to be careful as to what you say about refs on public forms like this as a misconduct fine is not fun...
Well put Teilo.
carefree
05-09-2007, 09:55
did say in a few earlier postings 'enough has been said' mark.
referee's do get remembered for a top performance but more so for a bad one. all referee's have an off day at all levels thats for sure but most will admit it. anyway as you said this is getting much to picky now with things getting pointed out that didn't happen agree its time to move on and let things take there own course onthe outcome.
barrel you could be right but i didn't see anything and no one watching did either or i'm sure it would have been mentioned so if something did wind ash up it must have been what was said to him maybe?
carefree
05-09-2007, 09:57
If the ref sends in the card and describes the incident as lashing out, or striking. The FA can upgrade the card. Depends on how the ref interpreted the incident. Maybe he bottled it? Who truly knows apart from the ref? Maybe he saw it differently to other people.
You need to be careful as to what you say about refs on public forms like this as a misconduct fine is not fun...
Well put Teilo.
NO LIES HERE JUST THE TRUTH so why should i be careful
Slim Bratts
05-09-2007, 12:49
Think the point was lost here way back and just turned in to a 'digging' contest.
It's quite simple, if somebody lashes out/kicks etc at an opposing player they should be sent off...simple. No doubt the fines and suspensions at this level can be harsh for some sendings off, but every player knows the score so if they want to act like an idiot they deserve to be treated like one.
However refs can't always see everything, even at the top footballing level, they are only human. But if they do see such things the player should walk.
I did not witness the incident that was initially in question, just trying to get these point across.
maccaceltic
05-09-2007, 15:49
i agree, the simple fact of it was the player should have been sent off, no matter what level.
as al said the ref did see the incident but thought the game was won so dident issue the card & no matter scoreline or level its played at; the rules are there for pretection of players aswell & should not be debatable
And there the subject ends
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