View Full Version : Moulton Harrox v PSL Shocker
tom flynn
03-12-2005, 17:56
I thought i would come on here early whilst things are still fresh in my mind.I was rubbish today whilst officiating the above game.While some on here might disagree with me.Its the worst ive officiated this season and i am ashamed of my performance.So to all associated with both teams i offer my sincere alologies.There was no excuse for my poor performance or that of a couple of individuals from both sides which i thought was disgusting.Ask me why i didnt send a player off from each side?Well i was stupid enough to think a stern warning would be enough but i was also wrong to think that they might respect me more for giving them what i call "a word to the wise".I tried to cut things out early on but i think i failed miserably today.I hope this is a one off and again my apologies to all.
Chris Judge
03-12-2005, 18:05
How refreshing for a referee to come on and admit to bad game. Only problem is Tommy if every player was so honest aftera game you would never be able to get on this site!
Good on yer but who should have gone
Well done Tom. That is sportmanship at it's very best.
Many thanks
Dont beat yourself up over it Tom, we all make mistakes. It is very frustrating coming off of a game, knowing youve had a shocker, know the feeling myself. Takes a lot of balls to publicly admit it though, i take my hat off to you sir
http://www.dabollicks.com/TA/mexican.gif
I played in the game and didn't think you were that bad. Couple of things that were a bit iffy, but probably evened themselves out over the course of the game. Certainly didn't appear any worse for one team than the other. It's very difficult to rely on a warning with some of the half-witted players that are on the pitch. The only thing some of them understand is to be removed from the fray. I have to say, if we had been ref'd by some of the weaker individuals in the league, the game could really have got out of hand. Rest assured you should be less embarrassed over your performance than the PSl no. 4, but he's probably happily telling his dim witted mates how he bravely broke a Moulton players leg.
carefree
03-12-2005, 22:14
a very dim witted veiw badger. as you were on the winning team i suppose of cause you are happywith the result.
yes mr flynn in the eyes of the psl camp you didn't have a great game, but it happens. you wasn't the only offical at this game who was poor.
could see what you was trying to do tommy, but as you know the cards should have came out early.
as for the broken leg thing, IF YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD YOU DIE BY IT!!!
your number 6( player concerned) elbowed psl number 4 in the face prior to what happened to him, along with a number of very poor tackles with no attempt to play the ball. i suppose it would have been fine if he had knocked a few teeth out or broke someones nose or jaw yes?
I think this subject illustrates how hard it is to be a referee. You can be hung for a sheep as well as a lamb. Having refereed at a number of games myself you set your stall out to ensure one thing and one thing only and that is for all to enjoy the game. This should of course include the referee. Without having seen the game today it is difficult for me to comment about any particular incident. However I can certainly concur with Tommy's thoughts that a word in the players shell like should hopefully be enough. Sometimes it does not work. Unfortunately if any referee was to wield the cards as per the laws of the game then he would probably be slaughtered for different reasons. You can not win as a referee, experience or not.
carefree, of course we were happy with the result despite us still playing well below our potential. To be perfectly honest, I would not defend anything anyone of our players did, if it was outside the laws of the game, and I didn't see the incidents you have mentioned (that's not to say they didn't happen). However, the most disappointing thing for me was the reation of your player following his challenge, effectively saying that the Moulton number 6 deserved it. The other disappointing thing is that your number 4 is actually a decent player, how much further he could have gone if he had a brain as big as his mouth. On a slightly different note, did you think the referees performance affected the result?
Badger has "outed" himself as arsene wenger!!! :lol:
I dont know who you are Carefree (obvioulsy PSL) but it is sickening when you come on here trying to justify why one of your players broke another lad's leg.
Whatever went on before there can be no justification for that. This is an amateur game in this league and lads have to go work on a Monday morning and earn a wage.
If the Moulton player was out of hand then it is the referee who should sort things out and only him.
And if this is is why Tom Flynn is on here apologising for his poor show then he truly must have had a very poor game.
But players taking their retribution is not good and I would like to think that PSL were a bigger enoiugh club to frown on such activities
nobody goes out to break someone's leg, a hard challenge is a hard challenge and if it results in a break that is extremely sad and unlucky for both players. I think that is what the psl player was trying to say.
from what i hear it was a very hard game played by two evenly matched teams. Well done Tom Flynn, respect to you for your honesty. It is difficult for Peterborough teams heading out to those fen villages, almost another world!
lozzaman
04-12-2005, 16:21
Justice is always done in the long run! :gun:
whats the point in competing if you dont "give as good as you get"? i'm sure the psl player in question(i wasn't there so i dont know who) wasn't trying to do any serious damage to the player just to get his own back for the apparent elbow with a strong hard challenge to let the moulton player know things cut both ways. if you allow yourself to be bullied by the opposition whats the point in playing?
i'm sure if it was the other way round you moulton boys wouldn't be on here slagging your own players off for trying to injure an opponent cos you expect them to fight and not shirk the battle as all teams do!
if you're gonna accuse people of intentionally trying to do someone an injury then you cant make accusations like that with rose tinted specs because you'll only see the argument from one point of view!
lozzaman
04-12-2005, 19:23
To be fair, the ref should sort these things out, but whichc to you seemed more deliberate? I think I know
forgot to add that i'm not condoning any intentional actions but if you're not prepared to get injured then a contact sport isn't what you should be playing is it? its unfortunate but things like this happen in contact sports!
Reading intently, and interested in everyone's opinion, but still trying to make sense of the 'Arsene Wenger' comment.
you said you saw everything else but when your player was at fault! comment wasn't exactly rocket science.
Its is quite obvious you are PSL fan JB but I am disappointed you can make such comments when a player has broken a leg. Carefree intimated in his post that it was done with intention as a pay back. That is a disgrace. If you want to let know somebody you are there on a pitch you don't break their leg.
Any soccer loving fan cannot condone such action even if you have received an elbow. I am disgusted with the responses from the so called PSL fans over this incident especially after the incident with Leverington still hanging over their heads
where have i said that i condoned a tackle which was meant to injure a player?????? oh yeah thats right i HAVEN'T!!!!! i was merely pointing out a scenario which is part and parcel in football which could've explained why this happened and how it may have looked. i sincerly hope the player is back playing asap as i'm sure everyone who reads this can sympathise with an injury like this as none of us would like to be in his shoes. but as i said i personally wasn't there and i'm sure it wasn't intended to so any harm to the player and we only have a moulton point of view on the subject at the moment and naturally you are going to feel aggrieved by the challenge.
did our number 4 know he had a broken leg when he was saying "you desrved that" i'm sure he didn't as i think his reaction would have been one of remorse rather than thinking the player had just taken a knock.
so do you think it was intentional or just a hard tackle that was misjudged or mistimed? if it was intentional no matter how much of a shocker tommy says he was having he would never let something like that go regardless of his performance.
carefree
04-12-2005, 21:51
what are you on badger!! i think you will find that the card shown was yellow! therefore a booking offence only
and it wasn't only the ref at fault for your dodgey win! psl lino missed the offside when your got your 2nd goal.but then again i'm sure you would disagree.THEY WERE ALL ONSIDE YEAH!
and your suspect lino! (the fairest in the league yeah !)
and leverington has nothing to do with any of you, thats for the FA to decide on, know the facts 1st before spouting.
at a guess i would say that you are moulton's mouthy goalkeeper, who from start to finish opened your big gob trying to wind things up.
so you can kiss my :mnn:
jb, sorry, but my comment about not seeing the incidents was genuine. I saw some other challenges and general lack of discipline from our side which went unpunished, and to be perfectly honest, sometimes it would do us a favour if some of our indiscipline as a team was stamped on. It has cost us 2 losses this season already. Carefree, sorry, but I'm struggling to follow your thread at all! I didn't mention a red card, and can only assume that your referring to my question over whether or not the referee affected the result. I don't believe the performance of any of the officials changed the course of the game, and when you don't have official linesmen they are bound to make mistakes, deliberate or otherwise. I can only assume our 'keeper has said something to upset you in some way, perhaps he was just bored.
tom flynn
05-12-2005, 09:46
I have read peoples replies to my post and spoken to officials of both clubs since the match finished.I havnt been able to get "the match" out of my mind from when it finished to me writing this post.I thought about my performance and my general control of the match. Although my general performance was not up to the standards i have set myself here is my view on other things that happened.Before anyone says,"what is he doing on a web site explaining himself for"?Im on here because the people on this board i hope understand local football.I also have to talk about it because its on my mind constantly.Im not on here for sympathy its just my view.I knew this game was going to be physical and thats how it started and yes, there was hard tackles and arms flying about so lets get red and yellow cards out early on eh?No,thats not me and next a lot of you would be saying "for christ sake ref what you booking him for its a mans game" My sentiments exactly.I didnt want to spoil the game by brandishing cards.Its not the way i referee.Both sides were "at it".As for the poor lad breaking his leg i feel really sorry for him but i dont think the way i officiated the game contributed to that incident.What i have learned and i hear you say,"he should know by now" is that a large number of players DO NOT respect the referee no matter how hard you try and either help them or talk to them.As somebody on here also said the sooner we get official linesman back the better.When this happens i think their will be a lot more cautions and sendings off because certain players will not get away with their antics with 3 officials.Just rewinding about the game.I did not hear anyone shout out"dummy" for the penalty incident.If i had i would have thought they were talking to me on this particular day anyway.Thankyou for listening and my regards to you all.
Tom, ignore anyboby who even tries to critisize, dont know what went on Saturday but do know the vast majority of people associated with local football consider you to be a top ref.
So even if you did have a bit of a mare dont worry about it, ref's deserve the same leniancy players are accorded when they make mistakes.
Not alot of point in speculating if it was a deliberate "leg breaker" as the only person who knows is the palyer involved and without sounding callous these things happen!
Football is a contact sport, no one ever goes out to deliberately hurt a player ( though roy keane deliberately admits he did ), a hard tackle is all part of the game. Can anyone condone it, most likely no, in the same sense can anyone condone an elbow to the face, most likely no.
The Psl player, Ben Lawrence is a tough player who plays the game in the right manner, hard but fair, a coomitted player who does not duck out of a battle. Anybody who has played the game will tell you, if your the victim of a malicious offence you will seek revenge on the pitch. He never meant to break the guys leg, hurt him yes, but there is a big difference. All those crowing that trying to hurt another player does not happen should speak to young Mark Baines. He probably jumps over 30 such tackles a game.
You should be subjective about such issues, if the elbow hadn't happened, the bad tackle would not have followed.
Tom, just to let you know that i didnt think you had a bad game at all fella, we have had alot worse this year.
Back of the Net
05-12-2005, 15:47
Elbows and broken legs etc and no bookings?
How on earth is the game going to clean up it's image with this going on?
I read your post Tom that you had a mare of a game, and that booking people isn't your style! But surely someone deserved booking admist all this lot?
I hope you've typed up a report for the the PFA to look at, detailing all you turned a blind eye to (sorry missed or let go) on Saturday? how many games is that you've reffed for PSL now?
Tommy Trophy
05-12-2005, 16:00
Flynny - every sympathy as unfortunately every now and again a game does not work out as you hope - and Wolves can't even beat Ipswich!
Does open up a wider debate rather than getting hung up with who did what on Saturday and that is around what you look for in a ref.
I have always argued that you can't have consistency and common sense - the 2 just don't go together. You either do it by the book every time or judge each games on its merits. I would much rather have the latter and stuff consistency.
I gave Tom a 10 for our game against Parson Drove, even though we lost, but in that game both sides played hard but fair. I wonder if Tom has become a victim of his own reputation whereby teams feel that he is inclined to turn a blind eye to stuff that other ref's might pick up on and use this to their advantage, or was it a game that was going to "kick off" no matter who did it?
Don't know - I think it was Badger that mentioned Moulton's reputation in an earlier posting and I have to say that they play right on the edge, and are very intimidating for opponents and ref's. It is 1 of the reasons that we find it so hard to beat them.
Nice one back of the net, really good idea to critisize one if not the only ref in the league who the players respect. If he is big enough to come on a forum like this and apologise then we should all be big enough to accept this!
Just for the record, I didn't think that Tom had a particularly bad game and was surprised when our officials said that he had apologised to them for his performance. He obviosly has higher standards than some. I also didn't rate the game as particularly dirty (hard and physical though). The incidents that have been mentioned were not going on all over the pitch, all through the game. Just to put one of my earlier comments into context for Tommy, when I mentioned Moulton's indiscipline, I was referring less to 'dirty' play, which I don't think we have a reputation for, but more to unecessary comments to referees and diving into tackles we don't have to make. This nearly cost us points against Ortonians, and did cost us points against Wimblington and Oundle.
tom flynn
05-12-2005, 17:52
Backof the Net,I mentioned arms flying and hard tackles.No mention of elbows.I have officiated in 3 OR 4 PSL games this season the same with Parson Drove and Hotpoint.Is there any relevance to your question?Also, what need is there to speak to the PFA?The game is finished and i look forward to my next game.
Elbows and broken legs etc and no bookings?
How on earth is the game going to clean up it's image with this going on?
I read your post Tom that you had a mare of a game, and that booking people isn't your style! But surely someone deserved booking admist all this lot?
I hope you've typed up a report for the the PFA to look at, detailing all you turned a blind eye to (sorry missed or let go) on Saturday? how many games is that you've reffed for PSL now?
Probably the worst and most uncontructive comment ever posted on this site. WTFAMU got it spot on. It was also a league game so what has it got to do with the PFA?
back of the net do you actually read the postings before you make yourself look silly? there are plenty of mentions of yellow cards being given. tommy only said that in hindsight he may have given them a little earlier to calm the game down as a stern talking to which works on most occasions didn't this time.
:stpd:
Back of the Net
06-12-2005, 09:55
Just to clear it up..
JB sorry - no I didn;t have the time to read every message fully... I missed the one that mentioned cards were brandished.... I made a nuetral comment to stimulate debate is all
I'm unsure who replied and said my 1st comment is the worst he's seen on here but you're not looking very hard are you?
Tom I've never seen you ref but I hear you are one of the top refs in the league - no offence was meant!
Elbows were mentioned by others in the string of messages - I'm sure someone wrote that if the Elbow hadn't have happened then the tackle and broken leg would not have followed? If it didn't happen then you missed nothing - sorry for any miss-understanding
Lads calm down a little! you wanted stimulated debate - my comments are just that...
Why not ask where were the cards in this game? surely if there was an elbow or 2 and someone gets his leg broken then any nuetral would expect at least of couple of yellows if not a red or 2? a lot of people have mentioned it was a tough game and some are already talking about the next PSL (dont know who it's against sorry!)game with anticipation of tough tackles etc... now I havn't seen them play so am only going by others observations - are they all wrong?
and yes I know it's a contact sport - I've taken my fair share of injuries and administered a few myself in my time, you all wanted debate so lets have one - not a slanging match and pathetic attempts to demean someone on here for there observations that many a nuetral would and do agree with!
Tom I'm sure you do a stirling job most of the time but you yourself even admitted you have done better! we all have mare's but what I was suggesting was that if you feel that way then why not talk to the PFA and go through how the game went and who the particualr offenders where so they can be on record in case incidents involving said players etc arise again? If you think it doesn;t warrant it then you shouldn;t be appologising on here for anything!
My question as to how many PSL games you've done was asked because I have known refs to be given one particular team to ref all the time and they kind of get used to a particular style of play and player/s... if for instance you are reffing tough games with hard challenges week in week out then surely you would get accustomed to them and be more reluctant or should I say you'd be more inclined to let them go and get the game going.. with that in mind players themselves would be more inclined to go in hard because they know the ref is likely to let it go?
It's not criticism lads it's a nuetral observation -
Tom once again mate sorry if I've offended I have the upmost respect for refs in our area that have a tough job officitating between not only everyone on here who has a massive opion of themselves on the whole but the whole of the footballing community and press.!!
fair enough ?
Back of the Net
06-12-2005, 10:03
Probably the worst and most uncontructive comment ever posted on this site. WTFAMU got it spot on. It was also a league game so what has it got to do with the PFA?
Sorry I dont know how the Prem league officiates itself? does the PFA not have control? who does? They should be made aware then (better?)
And as per my previous post.. look harder if you're after unconstructive comments there's plenty!
As for worst... your's above is close! but there's so many to choose from maybe we could start a poll?
tom flynn
06-12-2005, 11:29
Back of the net.no offence was taken by myself.Einsight is a great thing and afterwards i just wish i had handled things differently thats all.But its to late now i move on to my next game.If anything has gone on during the game there are relevant forms for officials to send to the PDFL if they have had any serious problems.I think that officials, management and players should meet and talk more often.This Forum is a starting point.Officials should not be afraid to say what they think or feel nor should management from teams.If managers say anything in the local press they get brought before certain committees.Its good to talk!!!!!
lozzaman
07-12-2005, 20:27
I thought that there was a booking for the tackle on Wills leg? Or am i wrong?
Back of the Net
08-12-2005, 09:19
I thought that there was a booking for the tackle on Wills leg? Or am i wrong?
I dont think it was a red though? a leg breaker from behind would warrant one I would have thought?
Anyway we seemed to have moved on from this one as most people on here either condone what happened and say it's part & parcel of the game or want to move on asap.
Its only the muppets who think it is part and pacel of the game when someone is hit from behind and breaks his leg and Flynn gets the colour of the card wrong and then comes on here crying
Sensible people know there is no room in football for such tackles
nobody has condoned a tackle of that nature if the outcome is what the player INTENDED which anyone who knows ben knows he would have gone in hard but not with that on his mind!
why are you stirring it up again as the last post said the debate seems to have run its course? or are you so far out of the pboro loop you dont know anything about the other topics to get involved so you have to keep flogging a dead horse!
whats happened has happened everyone who wants a say has had a say so lets just leave it at that shall we?
Touch a nerve did we then JB You should read the previous post and that was what I was answering But then you are one of those muppets who beleives everything a PSL player does is ok
lozzaman
08-12-2005, 22:54
I heard that the PSL player was laughing at the fact that he broke a Moulton players leg, thats what I find wrong, if the tackle was deliberate or not
Back of the Net
09-12-2005, 10:23
I heard that the PSL player was laughing at the fact that he broke a Moulton players leg, thats what I find wrong, if the tackle was deliberate or not
If thats true it's a sad state of affairs!
many voices of opinion on this one and from the last few posts i see a few of you are getting ****ed off. But your posts dont suggest to me that you are responding 100% on what you know just what you have heard.
E.G "I heard that the PSL player was laughing at the fact that he broke a Moulton players leg" you heard that you dont know that for sure if you want to know something like that why dont you go and ask the player in question? If i was the player that broke his leg and i read this it'd **** my right off. i dont know if that is your intention but maybe you should give this topic a rest before more things kick off over this. Fair enough its good to have a debate but can you see anything benefical coming from this arguing? i dont.
Here here Harbs, i was just going to make the same point myself but thought whats the point in dignifying off-is-ed and back of the q's post's with a response!
Back of the Net
09-12-2005, 11:13
I agree totally... if you read back my previous post does say that many just want to move on.
It was a hot topic but its done now...
I only mentioned that IF that was true its a sad state of affairs as many others would agree.
Thats it from me on the topic, I only wanted to stimulate debate on it, not instigate arguments and ill feeling etc.
Fair play back of the net
tom flynn
09-12-2005, 15:32
:cry:
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