Respect

[rabbit]

Dont know how long this has been about but its quite a funny video to highlight a serious point.

This year there will be numerous games played on sunday mornings without referees.

You can help make sure its as few as possible by not abusing the ones we have.

Think about it.


0TEd77NoSGk&hl

:hbgr::hbgr::hbgr:

[Andy]

Rabbit, give me a shout re refereeing. There's a couple of things i need to iron out but i should be able to help.

[n j titman]

Respect?

It is always the minority of players, coaches, managers, who cause the increasing lack of referees.

Responsibility lies not only with the County FA's but with the Clubs and Leagues to self discipline.

Peterborough is not a pleasant area overall in which to officiate, which probably explains much re the referee shortage.

I travel around England watching games and carrying out Referee Assessments, and there are not many towns of our size where verbal abuse and lack of any sportsmanship is so evident.

FA Respect campaign? On Saturday I was at a FA Cup Prelim ties not 55 miles from this City where the home team, one down with 20 minutes to go, got very frustrated, their bench decided to abuse the referee, which led to their players following suit,to the crown joining in, to the referee issuing a serious shed load of yellow cards.
This tie was between two UCL Prem teams.

Two weeks ago, at Barton Town Old Boys v Emley in the NE Counties Div 1, great match, not one dissent in 96 minutes, played by men out to enjoy their football,

Ther Leagues must take responsibility for bad behaviour on and off pitch, and act under their own Rules.

[Celtic 2, The Mighty Gers 4]

Mr Titman i am sorry i must disagree with what you have said, granted referees have it difficult in certain games in Peterborough and get a certain amount of abuse from players but then you tell me which ref in any league in the world does not. Examples run through all leagues from junior to amature to professional all over the world.
Personaly i think that this area is not to bad to ref at all, when was the last time a ref was harmmed buy a player in this area. I cant remeber for a long long time.
The abuse refs recieve is no diff to the abuse players give each other on the pitch, which ia always or mostly forgot about after the game. It shows players love the game here as knowing to well any serious incident or altercation with any ref can result in a siin die!!!

In my opinion a ref is no diff to any other person he must gain respect and putting a black outfit on and a whistle in his mouth does not automatically guarantee him this, which is sometimes a trap refs fall into.

When a player challanges the refs decsion its shows
1. his desire to win.
2. Feels the ref got the descion wrong in his opinion and is merley expressing his opinion at that time.

If we took these 2 attributes away from anyone in the world what kind of place would it be, never mind a football pitch!!

I also feel that the Peterborough area is not to bad an area to Ref in at all and can think hundreds of places worse to ref.

[Mick B]

Problem is Shaun that while a player is busy arguing with a referee telling him " he disagrees with him" he is not focussed on his game therefore not giving his best. I'm not daft enough to realise that this will ever stop but as a manager I do my best to encourage my players not to argue or question referees. It makes me cringe sometimes to see players going on and on about a decision for a throw in, why? how many change their decisions ? Far better to get on with the job of winning, that's the way to show real desire and passion. I do understand that some refereeing decisions can be the difference between winning and losing but we have to accept we have no control over that, It's just the same in the professional game, hard to do sometimes but they to tend to even out over the years. I do recognise that some players will argue black is white but refs are human and get p*ssed off with individuals the same as anyone, that's human nature.Having watched local football in the Midlands I don't think we are any worse here but also having played Rugby for years and watched the game at all levels I can honestly say the amount of disrespect shown to refs is almost non existant, why is this I wonder.

[Back of the Net]

I agree Shaun, putting on the Black shirt does not automatically ensure you have everyones total respect, like anything in this world you have to at least try and earn it and that's where some refs could perhaps learn a little from, of course players have to do their bit also... two way thing n all that..
I reffed a game recently (charity cup tournament) and the losing team were a little less than respectful to say the least, no cards issued as I talked to those concerned and explained in full any questions they had, they weren't happy as they thought they weren't getting calls but we all moved on without it getting silly and the more senior lads in their squad said it was fair enough and were happy to get on with it, game ended with no incidents worth speaking about.
The point is, I am positive a few other refs we've all had in this area would have blown it all to peices with cards (reds) and all sorts but there was no need, I saw all players were fully committed and accepted some of them were wound up about losing and taking 50/50 challenges etc so accpeted it would be a challenge and just tried to get on with it and offer explainations when questioned...
All to often players are blamed for the lack of referees, perhaps one (of many) reasons is because in this fast paced society, fewer and fewer people actually want to spare the time to do it and the pressures of modern day life mean reactions to any dissent at all are blown into full scale arguments and then cards and all sorts of needless stuff?

Oh and Nick, you keep mentioning smaller towns having the best facilities and no dissent etc, of course that's true because football is often one of the main focus' of the entire community which ensures the money and respect angle, I've played and reffed in towns/cities equal to our size and bigger and have seen all sorts of bizarre facilities (corby candles ground hahaha), reffering decisions and player dissent, Peterborough is no different at all...

[rabbit]

The lack of referees is not only due to abuse from players, its true people have less time to devote to football and other interests.

Abuse doesn't have to come from players for it to affect referees, it can come from spectators, managers, parents... all of these can lead a referee to say sod it, I cant be bothered with this anymore.

Nik, you sit on a country FA, I would have expected a more positive approach to a FA campaign, your suppost to be the voice of the FA at a local level!:nono::nono:

Simply raising the issue and stirring debate is a start. If we can get people to think twice before they stand nose to nose to a referee and threaten and abuse them, we've made a start.

I was at a game the other day and the moment one of the players stated ranting about the referee, all the other players were bantering him "Respect the ref, show some respect" etc etc. This sort of jokey, bantering approach to it, actually helped to firstly cut out the abuse and secondly changed the atmosphere of the game.

I think if all players / mangers had this sort of approach to the whole campaign we might change a few peoples minds.

Anyway rant :blh::blh: over, I just thought i'd highlight the issue.

Cheers. :D:D

[n j titman]

Shaun

Respect IS to be earned by not just Referees, but players/coaches/managers, as well!

You have a very selective memory as to when the last assaults upon referees were, my friend.


Sean

At no time did I say "no dissent" in other areas!!

Re your refereeing in a Charity Tournie and not issuing any cards. Congrats. Thankfully it was not an Affiliated League game where the non issuance causes major problems for the next referee to officiate!

The Laws of the Game are there for all teams at all age levels. The referee is employed to ensure said Laws are adhered to.

Rabbit

Love the tongue in cheek "you sit of the NFA"

Of course I endorse the FA Respect campaign. My comment was a statement of fact of what has already happened this season.

I look forward to observing matches in Peterborough this season

[Mick B]

Once again I reiterate why do they not have the problem of disrespect to referees in Rugby ? How many times do you see a rugby player call a ref or touch judge a fu*king cheat or a w*nker ? . The only player allowed to approach the ref is the captain. How often do you see rugby players verbally question referees ? Another point not many of the top class Rugby refs have played Rugby at the highest standard and I think you'll find that the laws of Rugby union are quite complicated, so come on people why is it so different? Could it be that some footballers have far too high opinions of themselves ? are they infallible ? has it become part of the game to question almost every decision made by the officials ? Is is now tactically correct to surround the ref and hound him, to encourage him to use his cards, I hope not. There has to be some logical reason for the different attitude shown to Rugby refs, just wish I knew what it was.

[Back of the Net]

hahaha blimey mate, give it a rest with the 'non insurance' angle, the sole point was many many refs would have lost control in that sort of game and issued cards, some red I'm sure and it would have blown into all sorts of chaos when in fact a calmer approach (with a very thick skin haha) was all that was needed.
Insurance issues are for another topic entirely!

Sorry what I meant was you seem to compare Peterborough to many other areas with us made out to be worse than the rest, when in fact most of your comparrissons are not of an equal nature, comparing smaller communities to ours wont yield results worthy of mention, try Oxford, Portsmouth, Salford, Swansea, Derby, Newport, Preston etc, all of which are of equal size (approx) and pretty much all with their own referee/player/facilities problems similar to, or even worse than ours!!!

[Celtic 2, The Mighty Gers 4]

Mr Titman at no point did i say that a player/manager/coach etcetcetc must not earn respect please next time read my post correctly so i do not have to repeat myself. i said quote"
In my opinion a ref is no diff to any other person he must gain respect and putting a black outfit on and a whistle in his mouth does not automatically guarantee him this, which is sometimes a trap refs fall into."
Unquote
As for assault on referees my memory is selective, i hope that this is not any kind of assumption that i was involved in any kind of incident. If it is not intended that way then please enlighting us all to the incident or incedents that you are referring to. As i am un aware of any local games that have had that recently.

Mick B i can understand your point with referees in Rugby only being approached buy the captains( i do believethe FA are using this rule now) but believe me players do disagree with the refs decsion just not to the level footballers do!! But the 2 sports are completely different so will be Refereed diff all together. For starters how many times do you see footballers throwing puches. :batr:You see this every week in rugby and being as the game is alot more physical players are more concerned with each other than the refs decision.

[n j titman]

Hi Sean

Please read carefully what I stated!! "Issuance" is nothing to do with insurance. that matter has been left to rest by myself

I can assure you that I have fully documented both Disciplinary Records per County over the last three years, and per area, and Peterborough is seriously not good!

[n j titman]

Shaun

As I have no idea who you are, I hope that you have been involved in any assault upon a referee!! History of Referee Assaults stay as history.

Re your remark about my inability to read, if you re read my post you will see I was agreeing with you re "earning respect"!!

[Ross]

are we going to be grown ups here? Or do I need to close this? up to you fellas.

[Celtic 2, The Mighty Gers 4]

Well no point going round and round i will be the bigger man and apologise for the mis interpatation. Never ever have i physical done anything to a ref. Not that i have not wanted to lmao!!!
:uk2:

Oh and sorry ross!!

[Back of the Net]

yeah sorry Ross hahaha, just debating it which is what we're here for...
my apologies Nick, big words early in the morning bit much for me obviously... dont see why non issuance would cause problems for others though to be fair but I'm sure there's a study somewhere that will back you up on it?
Are we able to see evidence of Discipline per County then Nick, I'd seriously like to see how we fair against places like Newport/Swansea/Preston etc because I really cant believe we fair worse than them? I played in Swansea once years ago, was the scariest thing I've ever done hahaha

[Mick B]

Good point Shaun in the comparism with football and Rugby, but when players throw punches and it's not seen by the ref they then can be cited on video evidence. But the point that I have picked up on was that they are to busy concentrating on themselves, actually I think it's because they are to busy concentrating on their game and not being a petulant prima donna's like their football counterparts.They are different sports but both controlled by three officials unfortunately those three officials are treat very differently in the different sports.Of course they don't agree with the referee but perhaps are mature enough to understand they are not going to get him to change his mind so don't bother arguing, there must be a reason for their different attitude.

[Celtic 2, The Mighty Gers 4]

hmmmm v true mick. Have no idea why it is!!

[oldbloke]

as an old fashioned manager i will try to instill respect into my sides 7 or eleven because its infuriating when players argue about trivial decisions, on the other hand refs make major crucial mistakes is much harder, refs should accept they make mistakes and be big enough to admit it at the time or later, they would be remembered at a later date for being human.

[Mick B]

Some do Old Bloke, Moe reffed a friendly last Saturday and openly admitted he had a mare, missed a blatant penalty and gave a dodgy one. None of this was malicious and he didn't need to be told he got it wrong. No need to call him a cheat and he was big enough to admit he got it wrong a short while after the game was over in a calm, adult conversation. If someone had got in his face yelling abuse I'm pretty sure he may have been a little more reluctant to admit his errors. Of course you do get the other side of the coin where certain individuals are never ever wrong and no matter how polite the conversation they still get the hump.

[n j titman]

No probs Sean
Evidence is from English Counties only! and was for a presentation, not for public disclosure. I also have had the pleasure(!) of both watching and refereeing matches both in Wales and Scotland, and refereeing Clubs from those countries in competitions such as the USA Cup, Maui Cup, and the Manchester Cup and fully understand the situation.

[Raph]

Yes, hats off to Moe who helped us out reffing our game last minute and also contacted me with his apologies about the game . . . which I don't think was nearly as bad as some ref performances I have seen!

[Slim Bratts]

Have 2 agree with alot of Mick B's comments regarding this and his comparisons to rugby officials and players.

Maybe a more zero tolerance approach should be used where only the captains can speak to the officials, straight reds for foul and abusive language (i know this is supposed to happen, but does n't), etc.

Footballers at all levels get away with way too much in how they speak too and intimidate refs, the problem is in all leagues and at all levels, I have done it myself, but if I knew that I was gonna get a straight red for acting like a jerk I would keep my mouth shut just like anybody else.

It is a bit of a vicious circle as the standard of refs in my opinion is not that great especially at the lower levels of football, but then can you blame people and potentially decent refs for not wanting to do the job when many just get constant abuse?

[Raph]

If it was a red for acting a jerk, you'd get one all of the time! :)

[Slim Bratts]

Kind of walked straight in to that one didn't I!

Very quick Raph, fair play. :nwy:

[bratts]

Raph, i think that comment to slim applies to you as well Mr hot head lol...ref's jobs are hard enough without players, managers, spectators etc making it harder. But at the same time ref's dont always make it easy on themselves with the way they ' occasionally ' speak to players, managers etc. We go on about players etc verbally abuse ref's but i have witnessed and had directed to myself verbal abuse from the ref before, yet you cant complain or book a ref like he can you.

[moe]

Ok, I had a nightmare saturday and yes I did apologise, the reason for the apology was because I knew it was a very poor display on my part, but we all have good days and bad days, everyone does including players, so whats different about ref having a bad day. Some ref's need to get a sense of humour, If a player complains about a decision so what its his opinion and fair enough if he wants to air that view.

Some people (macca, Raph, Harbs and the centre half for eye do not know his name) although I was having a bad game and I knew it, were entertaining while having a dig at me, which I do not have a problem with, It made my day far more enjoyable.
As for the referee's getting more abuse here than in other parts of the country I am not so sure about that, I personally think you want players to show respect stop Lampard, rooney and company swearing at the ref, start with showing them red cards every time they do it and see how quick it stops. Respect??? great idea but why start with grass roots level, start with the pro's and it will filter down far qucker than it will the other way round. imho

[Ross]

Try reffing in London. That's all I'm gonna say. Wasn't my most pleasant experience

[Mick B]

Absolutely spot on Moe from the top downwards, try talking to Reg Parker like Rooney and a lot of other pro footballers talk to refs and I guarantee you'll be walking.

[oldbloke]

Some do Old Bloke, Moe reffed a friendly last Saturday and openly admitted he had a mare, missed a blatant penalty and gave a dodgy one. None of this was malicious and he didn't need to be told he got it wrong. No need to call him a cheat and he was big enough to admit he got it wrong a short while after the game was over in a calm, adult conversation. If someone had got in his face yelling abuse I'm pretty sure he may have been a little more reluctant to admit his errors. Of course you do get the other side of the coin where certain individuals are never ever wrong and no matter how polite the conversation they still get the hump.
thats good to hear bud, gives everyone hope when the sense of fair play works both ways. came back into the game after losing faith many years ago, so refreshing to hear.

[RealTharhegoeza]

Comparing referee's from 2 different codes of sport is a bit unfair on both codes, even taekwondo refs get one in the face now and again (re Olympics) AND the refs can be over-ruled (same sport, same competition, same event)Rugby Union was designed after Webb-Ellis picked up the football at Eton school, as a way of fighting a war without deaths (well not many) and serious injury(perhaps a few more).Going backwards to go forward is something only a chinless wonder from a public school could think of, and football was going the same way until the backpass to the goalie who could pick it up was banned.Holding onto the ball for as long as possible providing you don't infringe the rules is another strange rule rugby officials have brought in, I am informed that a team could, if it won the first "maul/ruck" after each kick-off could keep the ball for the full 80 mins. Rugby league have the better rule of 6 tackles. Rugby players don't have to wait until after the whistle has gone to knock the S**T out of each other, they do it while the ball is in play unless the ref/linejudge (much better name than asst ref) see's them and the it's the early bath. I'm not a great fan of rugby except when the English are whupping the Scots or French and the Lions are sticking it to the Kiwi's or Roo's, but the one good rule they have stumbled upon is the sin bin.Anything from 10 mins to 20 mins could/should be allowed as punishment by referee's. can you imagine Sir Alex or Arsey Wenger letting a player get 20 mins in a sin bin without a hair dryer session later. Perhap even 2 x 10 min binnings = 1 yellow card, 4 = a red.It would mean a lot less hassle for the mandarins at the FA as well, the yellow card offence would have been dealt with by the ref in the same game it happened and not later on in the season when it may just affect where a championship or a cup goes. Red cards can be dealt with as they are at present.One problem that will raise it's ugly head is what if the ref and his 2 officials get a decision wrong. I hate to admit it but Andy Gray from Sky has got it right, let the fourth official, instead of standing with the managers, sit up in the television replay box on his own with a little red button to replay the last 15 seconds of a contentious decision from all angles that the camera's will allow and then whisper in the refs ear the right decision.The argument that it slows the game down is absolute rubbish. Sky have normally shown 3 or 4 angles of a handball in the area before the referee has took his whistle out of his mouth. If the ref is seen to be wrong give the team a free kick, if he is right then well done ref. It will also stop managers slating refs if camera evidence proves the point. In cricket, rugby and many other sports it is now used and not abused.This does not alter or change the problems within local football. The sin bin could still work but the arguments would still remain. But this is where local football must show it can adapt better than its professional colleagues.Player/managers/spectators must learn to take it on the chin, and play the game as it was meant to be played. NOW THAT IS WISHFUL THINKING.Rant over, I've put the world to rights, I'll now wait for you lot to pull it to pieces...... over and out.

[jb]

'kin hell!

[Sandford]

It would be really good if in Peterborough we could (players, managers and ref's) do something to make some positive changes in this area, its long over due. I agree that really it should start at the top level of football first. However maybe there is something we can do locally to address..

Just a thought, how about introducing a Respect Charter that all players, managers, and refs sign in all Peterborough leagues?? It can be introduced and club or leagues level.

It would be good if in Peterborough we could lead the way and make a real difference.

I know it might sound corny, some might think unrealistic, but personally if we dont try by bringing in something formally then we wont really know.

Just a thought.

[Celtic 2, The Mighty Gers 4]

Comparing referee's from 2 different codes of sport is a bit unfair on both codes, even taekwondo refs get one in the face now and again (re Olympics) AND the refs can be over-ruled (same sport, same competition, same event)Rugby Union was designed after Webb-Ellis picked up the football at Eton school, as a way of fighting a war without deaths (well not many) and serious injury(perhaps a few more).Going backwards to go forward is something only a chinless wonder from a public school could think of, and football was going the same way until the backpass to the goalie who could pick it up was banned.Holding onto the ball for as long as possible providing you don't infringe the rules is another strange rule rugby officials have brought in, I am informed that a team could, if it won the first "maul/ruck" after each kick-off could keep the ball for the full 80 mins. Rugby league have the better rule of 6 tackles. Rugby players don't have to wait until after the whistle has gone to knock the S**T out of each other, they do it while the ball is in play unless the ref/linejudge (much better name than asst ref) see's them and the it's the early bath. I'm not a great fan of rugby except when the English are whupping the Scots or French and the Lions are sticking it to the Kiwi's or Roo's, but the one good rule they have stumbled upon is the sin bin.Anything from 10 mins to 20 mins could/should be allowed as punishment by referee's. can you imagine Sir Alex or Arsey Wenger letting a player get 20 mins in a sin bin without a hair dryer session later. Perhap even 2 x 10 min binnings = 1 yellow card, 4 = a red.It would mean a lot less hassle for the mandarins at the FA as well, the yellow card offence would have been dealt with by the ref in the same game it happened and not later on in the season when it may just affect where a championship or a cup goes. Red cards can be dealt with as they are at present.One problem that will raise it's ugly head is what if the ref and his 2 officials get a decision wrong. I hate to admit it but Andy Gray from Sky has got it right, let the fourth official, instead of standing with the managers, sit up in the television replay box on his own with a little red button to replay the last 15 seconds of a contentious decision from all angles that the camera's will allow and then whisper in the refs ear the right decision.The argument that it slows the game down is absolute rubbish. Sky have normally shown 3 or 4 angles of a handball in the area before the referee has took his whistle out of his mouth. If the ref is seen to be wrong give the team a free kick, if he is right then well done ref. It will also stop managers slating refs if camera evidence proves the point. In cricket, rugby and many other sports it is now used and not abused.This does not alter or change the problems within local football. The sin bin could still work but the arguments would still remain. But this is where local football must show it can adapt better than its professional colleagues.Player/managers/spectators must learn to take it on the chin, and play the game as it was meant to be played. NOW THAT IS WISHFUL THINKING.Rant over, I've put the world to rights, I'll now wait for you lot to pull it to pieces...... over and out.


Actually Real i think that what you said is totaly spot on!! Especially about the 4th Official. But all said and done if the sin bin was ver brought in it could ruin the game slightly(Especially at our level). Imagine this Wayne Rooney isnt having the best day is frustrated and loses his temper and lunges in catches the gk who reacts and this starts a free for all :duel:, lets be honest happens quite often. Next thing you no 4 players have been booked 1 being the Gk and the opposing team have no Gk for 10-20mins!!

Both teams are missing 2 players so its now 9 a side and 1 team must put a player in goal or risk using a sub and having 2 gks when the 10 mins are over!! So now it starts to get complicated and refs are once again scrutinised and managers are lambasting them!!!

But like i said good idea!!:clap2:

[Sandford]

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/Respect/

[jb]

It would be really good if in Peterborough we could (players, managers and ref's) do something to make some positive changes in this area, its long over due. I agree that really it should start at the top level of football first. However maybe there is something we can do locally to address..

Just a thought, how about introducing a Respect Charter that all players, managers, and refs sign in all Peterborough leagues?? It can be introduced and club or leagues level.

It would be good if in Peterborough we could lead the way and make a real difference.

I know it might sound corny, some might think unrealistic, but personally if we dont try by bringing in something formally then we wont really know.

Just a thought.

it's a fantastic idea but a lot of ref's are idiots who only get the job as there is no-one else to do it. until the refs can be disciplined in a similar way to a player then a one way respect system wouldn't be fair. you need more refs to make the refs more competitive then the cream will rise to the top and good performances will result in the respect from players. the only problem is without respect there in the first place people dont wanna take up the whistle-its a vicious circle!

[Sandford]

Fair play for your opinion jb but I think we need a positive approach to this. As I said referee's would also be responsible to signing up to the charter or code of conduct as is required by the FA Respect programme. This really needs to be taken forward by the league. If enough managers are prepared to support it i think it would be a big step for Peterborough in the right direction. Quite frankly there isnt anything to lose by the Peterborough leagues signing up to the Respect programme and hopefully it will encourage more referee's to take part.