pfa headquarters downfall

[carefree]

after reading tonights ET it looks like the end of the PFA's big plans for focus,

well it didn't last long did it?

it would seem that now the 3 kings are going to be down to 2, what with vernum retiring at the end of the season. that will be the end of local football's top venue!!

so where will the cup finals take place now then? as i'm sure the pboro lions will take over the main pitch.

and more importantly where will tommy flynn and his lord westwood mates go for a drink and **** on sunday mornings? :lol: :lol:

i thought that that PFA as a whole was for everyone? isn't there any grants to be had?

what will happen to PNS f.c and pboro ladies?

will PNS head back to Eye with tails between legs and then back into the pboro league?


should the pboro football leagues all help and take over from them and put all them huge increased fines taken this season to help keep Focus a football venue instead of buying each club a couple of footballs as has been planned?

:soo:

[Cham1]

Sorry Carefree, but to say that it did not last long is incorrect. My colleague, Derek Vernum has for as many years as I care to remember tried his hardest to ensure that Peterborough has a floodlit venue at which to play it's football as an alternative to POSH. Something that has not been available since the demise of Alma Road, (What has happened to that venue since it was destroyed?, amongst other superb venues) Focus is a continuation of a dream that Derek had which has included many other options that have proved fruitless, Potters Way, PSL to name but two.

It is my personal opinion, and not that necessarily of The PFA, Derek and the other two PFA trustees namely Alan Mutton and Tony Nash should be applauded for what they have done for Peterborough football in their considerable attempts to make our great game better for all concerned . This appreciation should also be extended to Peterborough Northern Star FC and all the volunteers and users that have helped to transform Focus from a "Park in Dogsthorpe" (Quote form an ET reporter 2002?) into a venue that has attracted both Peterborough United as well as the England Ladies National football team since it was taken over. Additionally it is the envy of many other local County Associations as illustrated by the groundsman awards given to Derek this past year.

The offer from Mr Moore would appear to be a good offer. However to date no written plans have been submitted to the PFA. Although it would appear that the local newspaper seem to know it all. Whatever the outcome I must stress that the PFA still hold the final say, as there are other options available. Should this mean that the Rugby club do take over, then as long as it ensures the long term security and future of the venue and it's existing users then I am all in favour of it. It would also ensure that the work undertaken to date would not have been wasted

It must not be forgotten that in business it is often braver to admit that you have taken a project as far as you can then it is to continue only to see the venture fail. Focus has in my opinion a very bright future and the above should not be forgotten in it's development to date. I have said ever since I became PFA Secretary that we are only looking after our great game for future users and everybody should pull together in this aim.

[carefree]

i'll keep it simple then. mr chambers

will PNS & pboro ladies play at focus nx season?

will any football get played there nx season?

did the pfa take a 25 yr lease on focus and this is why they have to let moore take it over?

and why wasn't it publicly known that there was financial problems running focus released sooner?
not sure if i got this bit wrong, but i for one wasn't aware there was money worries at focus. i didn't know that it was a private business!

i know there has been alot of work gone into focus by the 3 kings and others. but that looks like it could all be for nothing as football won't be the one to gain? or am i wrong on this too?

roger also did alot of freetime work there for no reward when manager of eye utd. didn't he?

[only1fogg]

A very big issue, probably the biggest that been on this site as effects everyone.

Mark. It will be a real shame if the PFA were to lose chestnut ave, surely all Derek's (and others) hard work should not be allowed to be runied by some bungling men chasing a wrong shaped ball!!

Feel that all the money the PFA make through fines and other revenues should be ploughed into getting floodlights and keeping chestnut avenue as a football venue!!

The chairmen of p'boro lions coming out and saying that they will be taking over chestnut means one of 2 things -

1. They are being arrogant in assuming they will be taking over because they have some money and have had a few people at posh to watch them ruin there pitch.

or

2. The PFA have already made there minds up and not told anyone and will not fight this take over attempt.

Either way i would like to see chestnut ave stay with football and all the hard work already put in be kept within the PFA and not to be overtaken by someone else.

Remember, The PFA represents every football player in p'boro leagues and they all have contributed to the cost of Chestnut either by fines, bookings, signing on fees etc... WE MUST KEEP IT!!!

[NSFC]

The Rugby club taking over does not necessarily have to be a bad thing. All i have read has been negative attention yet i have heard some really positive things. I cant see why the PFA finals can not still be played at chesnut as from what i am aware Northern Star will still be playing there next season, so why can't the finals be played there? The investment that could be made by the rugby club could prove invaluable.

[Back of the Net]

massive shame if we lose this venue .. footy in Peterborough really does need quality venues such as this.
I am involved with a Sunday morning team - lower league and certainly all the teams around us aspire to reach cup finals or even semi's etc that could be played there!

I kinda agree with the comments made above, saying a deal is likely to have already been done! otherwise the footballing comunity would have known earlier about supposed money problems etc...
The rugby guys will not stand for numerous games of football on the pitch if they own it!!!! plus what would the surface be like after many fat eeegits plough it up week after week chasing an inflated egg about?

Also how could they run Saturday and Sunday football games down there PLUS share with the Rugby guys? They can't, so that cuts half the footballing comunity out of the picture straight away!!!

If keeping the venue was just about the money then a deal with ALL clubs and the general comunity could be done to raise funds.... it does seem that a deal has been brokered (even if only early days!) to allow Rugby to take over but with limited and seemingly 'Token' access for Football.....

the synic in me asks, who benefitting from this and how so???
I would hazard a guess that money will be changing hands somewhere along the lines?

[Chris Judge]

Will be a sad day for local soccer if the rugby boys move in at Chesnut Avenue.
At the moment they say soccer will still carry on but how long before Posh kick them off London road and then they will want to play first and second team rugby games at Focus and soccer will disappear on Saturdays there. Wear and tear on the pitch will also be a problem they have played a handful of games at Posh and look at it.
The big problem is Derek Vernum is retiring and who can blame him with all in the in-house fighting down there.
Two seasons aga we booked the pitcht out to get a fixture played to help the league. We kicked off early so we coud use the dressing rooms before Northern Star got there. Unfortunately Derek went home unwell before we arrived and a certain Mr Phillips pushed us into porta cabins without use of the showers even though it was a prem game and he is chairman of our league.
That just shows how things have gone on there.
Unfortunately Foggy's idea of putting the excessive amount of fines into a fund cannot work easily. It is the league who collect that cash and not the PFA although many sit on both committees
Money was thought to be in place for all sorts of improvements there but the FA went skint two years ago and recut their cloth on grants. Perhaps if a few sensible people and not too many from the PFA got round a table a solution could be found
It is disgraceful a city the size of Peterborough has only one floodlit pitch at London road and nothing for the amateurs as most cities have.
Derek worked bloody hard to change that and I am deeply sorry it has not happened so far but they should not be rushing to take rugby's bag of gold yet.

[Cham1]

Perhaps if a few sensible people and not too many from the PFA got round a table a solution could be found


I thought for a minute we were going to have a sensible and constructive debate. However yet again Chris you have taken the opportunity to aim cheap digs at officials of local football. I take it you must be one of the sensible people then? If that is the case when have you called the meeting?

[Chris Judge]

Mark Obviously reading was not a strong subject for you at school. What is a contructive debate!
I said a few sensible people and not too many from the PFA.
If the meeting was full of PFA members the Focus future would go further than it is now.
Obviously a few new thinking heads and better still business men could help it on its way plus a representation from the PFA.
Mark stop reading into things that are just not there.
I would be delighted to help save Focus in any way so that it benefits a wider section of Peterborough football

[Cham1]

Carefree. please call me Mark, Mr Chambers sounds too formal. There is no doubt in my mind (see my earlier post) that all that have contributed to the development of Focus should be complimented and I feel that I have done that. Whoever takes over the reins at the centre, assuming that somebody does then the lease given to them by The Peterborough City Council demands that the lease holders ensure the centre remains for the benefit of the community. At this present moment in time no deal as been done and all possible options are being explored.

[Cham1]

Chris I agree and I am sorry if I misread your post. I have said in my previous post that I feel that the present set up may have taken the centre as far as it can. If that is the case then the introduction of "new faces" may take the centre to the next level. Any meeting however will involve all of the three trustees.

[only1fogg]

Hi Mark, Am reading yours and chris's comments along with others with great interest!!

Surely we should be looking to take the set up further and not just let the lease run out and then await the rugby boys to take it over. I do not buy into this we have taken as far as we can!! If so, step a side and let someone else take the reigns over although I believe you have done a good job even if some ideas/solutions a little strange!!!!!!!!

As for sharing, that is not practical as too many games and the wear and tear aspect that rugby brings would only mean the pitch is not fit for football, remember we play on the floor and not in the air!!

For once can the PFA do the right thing by EVERYONE and keep it for football only and the community!!!

[Cham1]

Darren I do not think for one minute that the trustees wish to let the lease just run out. However one of the missing factors in football is volunteers. For too long the centre has relied on the fantastic support it has received from in the main, volunteers. Every since the centre was secured by The PFA trustees they and others have been trying to secure funding from the appropriate funding organisations only to date to be thwarted by red tape and politics etc. What all these helpers have demonstrated is what can be done without a large influx of money. I am just curious as to what could be achieved with the introduction of a large amount of capital, which in my opinion is probably required. The whole place needs to be placed onto and run on a business footing. That costs money in itself.

I share the view that Football should continue at the centre and I know that that is a view shared by The PFA Trustee. I must point out that I take no personal credit for what has been achieved at the centre. During my tenure as Secretary I have had enough to concentrate on in arrange and overseeing the nine competition that the PFA run. However I still want the centre to succeed.

[Tommy Trophy]

Part of me wonders if that is not the problem Mark. You know that I have in the past questioned the format of the cup competitions, when in fact the question should be why doesn't the league run its cup competitions itself. FIFA themselves have recently criticised football administration in this country as being too top heavy and committee driven, and the PFA is a classic example of this.

You spend too much of your time worrying about the organisation and administration of your cup competitions, when your time might be better spent concentrating on making a success of Chestnut Avenue or whereever, but more importantly act as a body that exists to work to the benefit and improvement of football in the city.

I am not sure how much brand equity the PFA now has, and I would suggest that a group is established under a different guise, but made up of people from all areas of football, local authority and local business.

This group should be no bigger than 10 in total to ensure things get done, and I would suggest that you were absolutlely 1 of those people Mark and I would be another!

Football in Peterborough will be taken forward by people dedicated to that objective, but who also carry business and financial acumen and not by people who have to spend half their time worrying if Mr X is eligible for a cup game.

[pmcvey]

After reading the posts regarding the possible demise of Chestnut Avenue I feel i have to ask the following....

How much money does it cost to run the establishment over a year and how bad are the finances at this moment in time??

I feel that there needs to be a degree of open-ness about this. Also can anyone answer the following...

How much do Peterborough Northern Star pay to use the premises, how much do the Sunday Morning League pay, youth league and Junior Alliance (and the ladies football team). It is the responsibility (i feel) of all of these parties to help keep football at Chestnut Avenue and prevent the best playing surface in Peterborough from being hacked up by rugby!!

With the increased amounts of fines being generated maybe money could be donated by the leagues on a yearly basis to help with the cost of running Focus.

[carefree]

why can't all the local football commitee's hold a meeting to talk about the future of focus? maybe a collective meeting every 3 mths with excess fees, monies and fines donated to the pfa. i'm sure that all local football clubs which number in there 100's would support this move. there most be 10's of 1000's of pounds sitting in local football doing nothing. so lets lets help out.

how about each and every club and reserve team do an extra football card nx weekend and donate the money to the pfa.

also get someone from each club to take a hat around at their match nx weekend to start a collection of fund to help, i for one will do this at pboro sports nx game.

so come all of you lets get together on this and save focus for football.

NO MORE SLATING ANYONE OR BLAMING ANYONE

LETS ALL START BY HELPING TO RAISE FUNDS

[pmcvey]

Whilst the teams make this gesture how about a suggestion for my fellow referees.

If we are all serious about raising funds for the PFA and keeping Chestnut Avenue for football how about, along with the teams, each referee donates one match fee. I for one would gladly donate £22 from a sunday morning premier game if it helps.

We are short of quality football venues around the city - lets keep the ones we currently have!!!!

Just a query - who is taking over from Derek as groundsman next season??

[Teilo]

Whilst I appreciate that this is a football venue for the City of Peterborough, you've got to appreciate also that there are some of us out of the city who have never been there, nor probably will they ever unless to play against a team that uses that pitch as a venue.

The real answer lies with those who use the pitch, the council authorities, local businesses and the ability to access funding in order to make it sustainable in itself. Long term it has to be able to survive with the amount of money it brings in, just like any other football club.

There needs to be an open meeting for all concerned to get involve, air views/suggesions and then sort out a working party that is going to do things, and not just talk about doing things.

Where I play Sunday football, and coach Girls Under 18's football. The facilities are truly shocking (anyone ever played at Estover in March?) and need development also. The only way we'll get it is by lobbying Fenland and Cambs County Council to pass over the lease. The Estover Playing Field Committee relies on funding from Fenland District Council to help make it sustainable. The Council has an obligation to help sustain activities that contribute to healthy living.

You don't want to even take the route with regards to fines unless you want to open yourselves up for abuse whenever someone wants to agrue the toss about a fine for ringing in the results an hour late.

[carefree]

understand what u r saying wisbech st mary. but your youth set up do play in the pboro based junior alliance, the league do consult with and enter pfa cup comps,

i have been to your ground many times and agree that alot of work needs to be done, but for st marys they have done a great job bring football into the fens along with a great pre season tournament for the kids ( maybe the best). so don't take this the wrong way please, you are in a village and pboro is the centre of local football in our area with the best amateur leagues, hence why the surrounding villages play in them.

not asking each club to forget about their own but to just give a little if possible.

so if anyone has good contacts with local business's ask them if they can help.

to note: focus changing rooms has been at the top of pboro city councils list for inprovement for some time, will this still go ahead if football gets the boot?

[Back of the Net]

Surely the question shouldn't be whether the club you're involved with actually play at the venue, it should be how much does the venue benefit Peterborough amateur football as a whole?
Focus remains one of the top venues in the Cambs area and attracts cup finals etc, EVERY club that enters those cups aspire to reach the final and have a superb day of football at the ground!..

To lose it to a group of egg chasing teams would be a massive shame!

Is it to much to ask for a general meeting to be held with total transparency from the people currently in control in regards to finances and any deals currently being discussed???
I am sure if everyone was informed as to what was needed to keep the venue we could all find a solution!!!!

I do fear a deal has already been done however, surely the Egg chasers would not have gone public without thinking it was a done deal?

[Tommy Trophy]

I was surprised that no-one picked up on the "raison d'etre" of the PFA which I would have thought was a topic that would provoke much debate.

All of the suggestions made so far whilst valid, are at a micro-management level and don't address the bigger picture - how can football be taken to a different level in Peterborough?

The situation at Focus is just 1 part of that - I am not sure personally what all the fuss is about - apart from the excellent middle pitch the facilities there are extremely average and if the local Rugby fraternity is better organised than its Footballing counterparts than good luck to them.

A few questions: -
1. Is there a strong connection between the local professional club and local football?
2. Is there a 2nd club in the city playing at a decent standard?
3. Are there floodlit training facilities on grass for local clubs?
4. Have a significant number of professional footballers emerged out of Peterborough in the last 20 years?
5. Does the local council work closely with both local leagues and clubs?
6. Do we have an abundance of local referees and is there a rich pool of younger refs coming through?
7. Do the local leagues and its member clubs work closely together within a spirit of mutual cooperation?
How many of these could you honestly answer "Yes". Would love to think that a body could be established and given the relevant mandate at an appropriate level to address these and many other issues but I won't hold my breath.

[Chris Judge]

I wouldn't if I was you Tommy
It would seem our soccer hierachy in this town are only concerned about collecting fines.
How many of them do you see at games on Saturdays
The answer to all your questions is a positive No but certainly quite a few could be changed very easily with some thought and co-operation

[jb]

why should us players who already splash out quite a lot during a season for a sport we love bail out an organisation and people who are guilty of not running it properly. if they were prepared to disclose their failings in the financial department and told us where they went wrong then that would be a different matter but i dont see why we should help to try to bail people out if they're not prepared to let us know the full reasons why. i do agree that the pitches at chestnut are second to none in the local area but the rest of the facilities dont seem that good at all.

what money has the pfa had at their disposal over the past few years since they took over at chestnut avenue?
in this time how much has been spent on the playing surface as that is all thats seems to have improved as far as i can see(a normal player that has played at most levels in the peterborough league on sat and sun)?

if the reasonable outgoings outweigh the money coming in then surely that would be down to the incompetance of the decision makers in taking over this facility so surely these people should hold their hands up and accept responsibility?

if us players (the people who this facility is for!) are made aware of the full facts then maybe the pfa would get the help from the clubs and players that they need.


well done to the peterborough ladies with their petition to keep the rugby off the pitch as posh had only got their pitch sorted out by the beginning of last season since the new stand was built about 10 years ago! that cost them near the £1million mark over the years and the rugby has absolutely destroyed what had finally become an awesome playing surface in the space of about 3 months!(pitch was wrecked by november)

if these facilities were lost it wouldn't be the end of the world as there are excellent facilities at deeping rangers which have been used for big games and cup finals in the past and could easily be used in the future and there's also good floodlit facilities at yaxley. this wouldn't be an ideal situation but surely it'd be much better than our local fa going to the wall trying to sustain facilities that is beyond their means?

[carefree]

a few questions for you mr chambers, if you know the answers that is?

is it a done deal with the local rugby then?

a bit underhand if yes, as i for one feel that the pfa didn't let anyone know that there were any problem at focus. (as far as i'm aware)

did they have a right to do what they did? i don't know as i' m not sure who the pfa answers too.

i know that it is a different set up as to local football leagues, but come on what really happened here?
:soo:

finally is it worth member clubs trying to help out by raising money to keep football at focus?

[Cham1]

At no point has the PFA trustees said that any deal with any body has been a done deal. From my knowledge that is the case. The trustees set up a working group towards in late summer 2005. This group is made up of representatives from the five leagues operating in Peterborough. It's aim was to explore the way forward for the centre, given that Derek planning to retire in May 2006. Like any body in football or sport in general money is always an issue and Focus is no different. These points raised on this forum are welcome and I have already discussed them with the Association's Chairman. As I said no deal has been signed seal or delivered and we await any proposals in writing.

[Back of the Net]

Very adept answer that one..

I'm sure no deal has been signed as yet because thats always the last thing to happen - right before telling eveyone about it! sorry to sound the sceptical here but from whats known at present it doesn't look good for footy down there next year...
usual procedure I would imagine is a private conversation between the top guys that have final say on the matter, if this goes well then word generally slips out to test opinion and pave the way, but of course "no deal has been done yet"
If it wasn't likely to happen the ladies teams would not have bothered collecting so many signatures against it (great work there!) would they!

It'd be easy to clear up with a meeting called to discuss it openly, reps from the Egg Chasers attending along with the guys in control currently, But in reality Barry fry would stop robbing PUFC blind or a deal will have been signed before that happens!!!!

I for one would be gutted to lose the venue but as others have suggested we do have others that could be upgraded?

[Teilo]

[quote="carefree"]understand what u r saying wisbech st mary. but your youth set up do play in the pboro based junior alliance, the league do consult with and enter pfa cup comps,

i have been to your ground many times and agree that alot of work needs to be done, but for st marys they have done a great job bring football into the fens along with a great pre season tournament for the kids ( maybe the best). so don't take this the wrong way please, you are in a village and pboro is the centre of local football in our area with the best amateur leagues, hence why the surrounding villages play in them.

Um, you probably don't, because this season I have been playing for March St. Marys :lol:, and they have no junior set up whatsoever. Wisbech St. Marys facilites are not too bad, and they are pretty good at bringing in funding for what essentially a small village. If you ever played away at Hereward Old Boys, you will understand what I mean.

[Cham1]

Instead of saying that not no deal had been done. Maybe I should have said that no proposals have been received in writing from the Rugby club. A letter has been sent by The trustees inviting them to provide them with their plans and aspiration for the centre. Additionally if the ground swell of opinion is that a public meeting be required then I am prepared to suggest to the trustees that that is what should happen.

However I would say that each year all Northamptonshire FA registered clubs are invited to the PFA Annual General Meeting. In my six years as Secretary the number of clubs attending as never been more than 5 or 6.

[Back of the Net]

However I would say that each year all Northamptonshire FA registered clubs are invited to the PFA Annual General Meeting. In my six years as Secretary the number of clubs attending as never been more than 5 or 6.

I take it that the PFA AGM is different to the PSMFL AGM??? plenty of clubs attended the last one of those and NOT ONCE was Focus mentioned!!!
Sunday teams also use Focus for finals ect

[Cham1]

You would be right The PFA AGM is different. All Northamptonshire FA registered clubs are invited as they can vote on any issues as The PFA is affliated to that FA. Any club affliliated to any other FA wishing to attend the PFA AGM can request attendance but could not vote.

[Back of the Net]

well our club is a regestered Northants FA side - I think ALL Sunday morning sides have to register with the NFA but we've never had an invite?
Am I reading it wrong?
If you mean only Saturday sides get an invite and a vote on issues relating to Focus etc (which is how i read it!) then thats pretty crap because Sunday teams aspire to use the venue in cup finals etc...
If we should be invited and be able to vote, seeing as we're Northants FA registered (which i think ALL Sunday P'boro sides are) then where's the invites, you'd soon see more down there then i would guess ?

Sorry if I've mis-read this but you mention low attendance at these meetings as if there's no interest, I can assure you thats not the case

[Cham1]

Sean. Your club have had an invite each season that I have been Secretary. Each year about May I send out to the clubs Secretaries the notice of Annual General Meeting, which usually takes place during the first two weeks of June. I look forward to seeing your club there later on this year.

[Back of the Net]

look forward to seeing the invite this year mate... cheers!
honestly haven't seen one before!