View Full Version : ref's and lino's
carefree
31-01-2006, 18:56
the replayed cup game psl v leverington had pfa appointed officals!
after reading tonights ET where both managers said what a great game it was ect. i had a thought!
well i can only say that the reason for this was because there was no club lino's to put up a dodgy flag!
the standards have quite clearly dropped at all prem games nowadays and with out a doubt it is because of club lino's.
now at this game was a young offical lino,( not you martin smith lol) at a guess i would say he was 16, what better way for youngsters to learn how to gain experience to prepare for life in the middle.
so hey how about using these up and coming lads as offical lino's?
setting up a list would possibly be fairly easy to do,
i know that david burgess use's youngster to ref in the junior alliance, so how about this:
get his list of youngsters and ask if they want to earn a fee to run the line in the prem div?
just a thought what do other prem clubs think?
maybe a volunteer from one of our member prem clubs could run this?
it would need a list of approx 20 lads on it as there is a max of 8 prem games each week.
I can sort of see this working, but, it takes a lot for a younger lad to pluck up the courage to step up to adult football, although i have to admit, im glad i took the step up when i did.
Scenario: - young lad running the line, gives a "suspect" decision, offside or summit, gets 11 angry blokes all confronting him, and hey presto, youve just lost a lino. Im not saying this is the case all the time, but can see it happening more often than not
Just my 2 penneth
carefree
31-01-2006, 19:53
can see what your saying and the youngster sat did make a couple of so so calls, but i would rather a neutral offical lino make a few mistakes then put up with alot of club lino calls
i sure that offical (young) lino's would not get surrounded by angry players and am sure they would get plenty of protection from the man in the middle, after all, clubs would have to answer to the f.a if they did this.
i for one and i'm sure every team would prefer an offical lino.
can remember ron 'rocket' jackson and jim hudson making many poor calls as adult offical lino's when the prem had them, can't ever remember them getting surrounded by angry players ect, they never cheated just made a FEW poor calls from what i can remember, and there ain't any youngsters i'm sure who would do worse then the famous two
(no disrespect ron & jim)
Think it's a great idea in principle 'cos like you say there would be questionable decisions made, but not anywhere near the amount that club lino's make. However, it would mean a financial increase which would fall at the feet of the clubs and eventually the players in the form of subs.
Fair play tho if the idea gets off the ground
carefree
31-01-2006, 21:18
true about the increase in home match fees, but thats what it use to be like a couple of seasons ago before crowland made the step up and there was less debate about being robbed by lino's getting it wrong or whatever.
and i'm sure if it increase's the quality of the games it would be worth it.
i would think that most if not all prem clubs would welcome the extra fees for a fairer and better standard in the local game.
I think a neutral official being appointed as an assistant referee is a great idea however there is a downside.
Since the league lost its Supply league status a few years ago the league is at the bottom of the food chain (so to speak) Here in Peterborough we have a problem whereby we have four (five if you include Leicestershire and Rutland) county FA to supply referees to the league (and other leagues are higher in the pecking order)
It is a scenario that occurs in the UCL Division 1 that the referee is on his own with a club official assisting him.(the next step up for our league teams looking for promotion)
One area that needs to be looked into is, when the referee is on the training course is he/she given a list or referee secretaries to call. Are they asked if they would like to referee on Saturdays or encouraged to do kids games?? Personally i think 22 sets of screaming parents and an ego-centric manager is far scarier then one or two players coming up to you in adults football.
One last point - in the UCL Premier Division Northamptonshire FA have forwarded a list of names of 16/17 years olds (from the west of the county) to act as assistants. I feel the lack of a Peterborough Referees Association (as a support function) sees Peterborough neglected (although Rob Windle does a great job training wannabe referees)
......One area that needs to be looked into is, when the referee is on the training course is he/she given a list or referee secretaries to call. Are they asked if they would like to referee on Saturdays or encouraged to do kids games?? Personally i think 22 sets of screaming parents and an ego-centric manager is far scarier then one or two players coming up to you in adults football.........
Damn straight on that one, which is pretty much why i gave up reffing junior football.
Its why many young referees give up - there needs to be more "friendly" faces around for the referee to turn to. If an inexperienced referee goes out on a Peterborough league match be it senior or junior maybe a mentor could look after them. Again, if Peterborough had a referee association retainment might be greater!!!
most of these potential young lino's are already reffing in the lower leagues where they are far more important to peterborough football in general than running the line in the prem. though it is a good idea if it can attract more youngsters into the officiating side of the game as all the leagues could do with official lino's but obviously the main priority is the prem and i cant see any other leagues getting them! some of the refs who have quit in recent years because of the hassle may also be interested in returning to run the line. the more officials we have the better as they could be disciplined if required as they wont be as untouchable as they are now as there would be other people waiting in the wings to step in as officails know they hold the upper hand at the mo as they are desperately needed. i'm not saying they're all incompetent but competion for officials places can only benefit the league as it does with players at clubs
tom flynn
01-02-2006, 10:17
I take everybodys points on board but disagree about the abuse side of it.Players wont stop abusing referees let alone assistant referees.
I think this is a smashing idea! At the end of the day they will get no more abuse than they do at the those kids games.....have you seen those parents screaming at those young ref's!!
Chris Judge
02-02-2006, 19:15
Its great that people come on here with ideas to help improve our local game but I do not think you this latest one is a goer.
We had a lot of young lads doing the line about four years ago and it was very unfair on them. It was their first taste of mens football and in some cases it was he who shouts the loudest.
They made mistakes just as the club linesmen do!
Look at the momney clubs save too
I'm a qualified referee but am reluctant to ref. In adult games, you get abuse from players, in kiddies games you get abuse from parents - moreso if they have as stated previously an egocentric coach.
There needs to be more incentives for referees to keep turning out. I have a lot of respect for them, even the bad ones. How about spending some of this fines money on re-establishing a worthwhile referees association with proper support mechanisms. Refereeing can be a lonely job. Fenland as far as I am aware aslo has no association, nor does there seem to be an incentive for me to go to one.
carefree
02-02-2006, 21:18
still think that a mistake or whatever by an offical lino is better then a club lino making a mistake or whatever! the point is the offical won't cheat!!, not that i'm saying club lino's do this, but it would stop others saying ' yeah they only won the league or cup or even a game because their lino was a cheat'
'he who shouts loudest' as chris say's. well there's no change there then! as he who shout's loudest at their club lino still sometimes get the decision just as much as maybe a young offical would give it.
also what better way could there be then for the youngsters to learn from a prem ref.
as there isn't a way to do a poll on here anymore lets keep it simple, let hear a vote from an offical from each club if they would go for the idea
?
Chris Judge
02-02-2006, 22:24
Before you start voting have we got 12 -15 young linos to do the job because lawrence struggles to get enough referees at present and I dont think there is too great a problem with club linesmen most of them are pretty good and would be better than some young lad who barely knows the rules
After all the referee is still in charge and can overule any decision. If there are blantant cheats running the line in the Premier Division then surely the referee can mark them accordingly and the league can come down on anyone with really low marks
We have had young lads before and it is not the answer in fact it is more likely to put them off refereeing all together
carefree
02-02-2006, 23:23
your never negative are you chris!
a friend of mine spoke to dave burgess chairman of the junior alliance tonight, dave said he has a list of 40 young ref's and would gladly let him have it and thought that it was a good idea to get them to learn from the top local ref's, also this same person would be happy to call and send these young ref's to games to run the line for the prem member clubs.so no worry for lawrence or lil.
a ref can't see all the bad club lino call's (or offical) if any at all, and mostly has to go with them be they right or wrong and i for one have never heard of any club lino getting ask by the league about how badly he has run the line or any call he has made!
have you never seen what might be a dodgy club lino then chris?
still negative chris? so whats you vote then?
a wild guess! urmm???? would it be a NO ? ?
why not trial the idea for every senior cup game next season? surely that would give more of an indication on whether the idea would work and would ease these potential lino's into the role
carefree
02-02-2006, 23:37
don't get chris back onto cup games again jb! :lol:
especially not THAT one!!!
Chris Judge
03-02-2006, 10:14
Sorry to disappoint you Carefree but if Burgess has 40 referees willing to do Premier games then I am in favour of giving it a go.
I presume they will stay for the whole 90 minutes and not disappear at half-time when things are not going well
As a Club Lino I thought I would give my views on these posts. This is my second season at running the line and I have to admit I have not seen many club lino's that you could call cheats.People make mistakes, referees, players, managers and club lino's, I should know. As for he who shouts loudest, that never affects me. In fact I probally get more stick from "my team" than I do from opposition or supporters. If there are 40 or so "neutral people " willing to run the line on Saturdays then I would welcome it but at the moment we have to make the best with what we've got. To be honest the Prem. League is competitive and there are a lot of what I consider quality teams. It is a good competition and at the moment I really don't think it is being spoilt by club linos cheating.
carefree
03-02-2006, 17:29
your veiws are welcome mick, and i know that you are correct in what you say about club lino's, but as you know the ref will take more notice from an offical lino then a club one, and an offical lino will have more power,and with them in place both teams might get more out of the game . i.e fouls and hand balls and off the ball incidents not seen by the ref, balls crossing the line that a club lino might not give that the ref hasn't seen and the ref is less likely to over rule his co offical on any offsides ect..
nice point about psl's lino going home at half time chris, but that was a club lino yeah? do you think an offical will do the same then?
eddie c s
03-02-2006, 19:15
lol i can say that a fair point mick , remember beating u 2-0 and u gettin stick from ur own players, although i actually thought it was the correct decision.
people all make mistakes , we have our own lino on a sunday who is our left backs dad and if anythin he goes against us . 3 or 4 yrs ago we were winning 3-2 and belmore got fouled by duncan outside the box in the 90th min. ref went over to the lino and asked wether inside or outside the box . our lino said inside . the pen was given against his own son in the last min , ref said last kick and our keeper saved it lol .
point being is that many club linos do a good job , and do believe that most enjoy a fair game .
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